# FEMA won''t let the press photograph recovery of the dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451 "2005-09-07T01:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/21 "2005-09-07T03:12:31Z")
> [@Tenar](#): > > EXACTLY! Asking is not compulsion or restraint. It’s a request. Period. And I certainly respect people who honor the request in this instance. > > At the risk of being inflammatory, Askia, if someone in your family were killed in a tragic, horrible, and newsworthy fashion (think murder, natural disaster, etc.), would you want their battered and horribly decayed remains on the news for every idiot with a TV, a newspaper or an internet connection to gawk at? Except in very particular circumstances – say, a political assasination or a lynching, where you wanted to embarrass the authorities – I imagine you would not. (And, NO, to forestall the question, I do not think that the hurricane deaths are equivalent to political assasinations, even if they were inadvertently increased by poor disaster management.) Actually it’s a bit worse than that. There are people who don’t know about their loved ones. Hell of a thing to find out from the morning paper over coffee and a bagel. Sorry **Askia**. I’m a firm believer of freedom of the press and all that old fashioned stuff, but this sort of thing is a matter of respect for the families of the victims, not oppression. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/22 "2005-09-07T03:23:06Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > There once was a time when a request like this needn’t have been made. > > Not everything about that time was perfect, but this is one thing that has certainly changed for the worse. > > Social mores and good manners used to constrain behavior a bit more tightly, to the point that anyone who printed these pictures would become a pariah. That is no longer the case, so requests like this have to be made for the benefit of those who’d stir up shit needlessly. While composing a post, I found you’d said it well. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/23 "2005-09-07T03:34:44Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Social mores and good manners used to constrain behavior a bit more tightly… Sure, just as potential the loss of a city _used_ to be enough to get a president up off his dead ass. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/24 "2005-09-07T03:35:44Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Actually it’s a bit worse than that. There are people who don’t know about their loved ones. Hell of a thing to find out from the morning paper over coffee and a bagel. In general, no one is going to find out about their relatives while eating the morning paper. This has nothing to do with FEMA and everything to do with the state a corpse will be in after 8 days (or more) in the subtropical sun without refrigeration. After the tsunami it was almost impossible to tell the difference between Asian and European corpses because of the bloating and discoloration. Unless the deceased has passed very recently OR is wearing a very specific item of clothing or jewlery, this is not an issue. It may be disrespectful, and may be tasteless to _publish_ close up photos. It also may be very damaging to the commander in chief. Unfortunately his actions over the past five years has me leaning towards the latter explanation for FEMA’s request. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/25 "2005-09-07T03:38:07Z")
II was having a conversation with my wife just today where she asked “The press showed thousands of victim’s bodies from the tsunami, I wonder if they will when they are closer to home?” ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/26 "2005-09-07T03:38:17Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > In general, no one is going to find out about their relatives while eating the morning paper. You may want to find another way to get your news. I hear the ink is toxic. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/27 "2005-09-07T03:39:36Z")
Not to mention they probably don’t want untrained individuals around the rotting corpses. Liability issues, and all. Removing a dead body can be an ordeal-you don’t just stack them up like firewood. Honestly, why do you feel this need to see them? If you feel the need to look at dead bodies, [Rotten.com](http://Rotten.com) is always available. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/28 "2005-09-07T03:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Tenar > … If I were a homeless, shell-shocked person who had lost everything and was still wondering where my family members – or their bodies – were, I really don’t think my peace of mind would be improved by watching coverage of unrecognizable corpses and wondering if my loved ones were among them. > > Not everything is a coverup. > [@](#): > > Askia > > Not allowing the free press to do their job in America is a cover-up. I have to agree with **Tenar**. We don’t have a right to know EVERYTHING about EVERYONE just because we’re guaranteed “freedom of speech”. In no way (that I can remotely imagine) does not getting to see the bodies diminish our “freedom of _speech_”. What exactly is it you think is being “covered up”? They’re reporting the numbers of dead. Do you think that if we were allowed to see all the pictures of those poor people that we’d somehow see some vast conspiracy between the actual numbers of dead and the actual dead or something? This isn’t a coverup, it’s a statement of “For God SAKE people, have some decency”. ---
**Author:** ![meara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@meara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/29 "2005-09-07T04:02:57Z")
I guess I’m in the minority, but I think the pictures should be taken. This is a very significant, historical event, and a full record should be preserved. There is a big difference between hearing “500 people dead” and seeing 500 bodies of men, women and children arranged in neat rows. The former is quickly forgotten in a sea of statistics. The latter haunts you, and may push you to take action to keep such an event from happening again. Good journalists should have the skill and tact to choose powerful images that will help us appreciate the full extent of the disaster without unnecessarily trampling the feelings of survivors. I think we’ll see heart-wrenching silhouettes and wide angles, not close-ups of bloated, deteriorating corpses. That said, I don’t think it’s FEMA’s job to _help_ the photographers. I just don’t think they should be hindered or stigmatized. Without the media looking over shoulders, it would be easy for officials to downplay the tragedy to cover up mistakes. Even if it’s not pretty, I’d rather see the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/30 "2005-09-07T04:17:29Z")
I think it comes down to whether or not you feel people should be angry about what happened. A body count is just about the most minimal, abstract conveyance of information available. A few images of bloated bodies swelling up before they’re attended to, or a reefer truck full of people in body bags stacked like cordwood – that’s something that’ll go a long way toward people apprehending exactly what “7,323” (or whatever the final number will be) _means_. Personally, I think people _should_ be angry. This whole thing has been an incomprehensible clusterfuck, and there’s no way that this many people should have died. I saw an image today of a woman who’d been dead by the side of the road for a week. Not nice to look at, but damned if it didn’t increase my horror and anger, when I thought that was impossible. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/31 "2005-09-07T04:34:15Z")
I saw a couple of pictures today. Of the City of New Orleans only, most of it underwater. And I saw a headline, “10,000 Dead”. On the news I’ve seen pictures of the remains of people’s homes. I seriously doubt that I’m alone in feeling quite horrified, sad and agonized over what’s happened. Graphic photos of “floaters” is not going to somehow magically push me to that “special” place where I’ll then “do something” about what’s happened. Like millions of my fellow Americans, I’m already there. So I disagree that gore and the macabre need to be shoved into American’s faces before we care “enough”. And to suggest so is pretty insulting to your fellow Americans. Those who don’t care enough are likely to be cold enough to not be moved by graphic photos of the decaying dead. And most normal folks do NOT need them in order to do what’s right. Which is help in the ways each of us is best able. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/32 "2005-09-07T04:35:36Z")
> [@meara](#): > > I guess I’m in the minority, but I think the pictures should be taken. This is a very significant, historical event, and a full record should be preserved. I agree. Which is not to say I think those pictures should be splashed all over the tv, or that we should see them over and over again (like the WTC images) until we collectively decide we’ve had enough. Nor do I think FEMA should go out of its way to provide access–a little access should go a long way in this situation. But historical preservation is important; they should be available to journalists and historians, even if not ever considered for mass consumption. Case in point: Holocaust deniers. There are apparently still people out there trying to convince others that the Holocaust either did not happen or has been greatly exaggerated. And yet there are photographs–ones that certainly weren’t in _my_ school history textbook–that are far more potent than any verbal argument, whose authentic horror I think no reasonable person would doubt. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/33 "2005-09-07T04:41:16Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > … so requests like this have to be made for the benefit of those who’d stir up shit needlessly. “Needlessly” Interesting choice of word, that. Do I take that to mean there is a certain degree of horror and outrage that is appropriate to the situation? But provoking more than that reveals some political calculation? Of which calculation, we are given to understand, the Bushiviks are entirely innocent, as blithely unaware as the newborn, as they are concerned only with the dignity of the deceased and the tender sensitivities of the American people. Probably never even occured to them, that suppressing such photos might dampen the political consequences of the…situation. Mmmmm. Yes. Quite. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/34 "2005-09-07T04:57:26Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > There once was a time when a request like this needn’t have been made. > > Not everything about that time was perfect, but this is one thing that has certainly changed for the worse. > > Social mores and good manners used to constrain behavior a bit more tightly, to the point that anyone who printed these pictures would become a pariah. That is no longer the case, so requests like this have to be made for the benefit of those who’d stir up shit needlessly. [Mathew Brady’s photographs of Civil War dead.](http://www.rleggat.com/photohistory/history/pics/gardner-harvest-of-death.jpg) [Photographs of the Johnstown flood dead.](http://www.johnstownflood.com/images/5.jpg) [Robert Capa’s photo of a man being shot during the Spanish Civil War](http://www.museodellafotografia.it/Mostre/mostre%20di%20attualita/attualita/Capa/il%20milizianoweb.jpg) [Lynching photographs from Life magazine.](http://www.outofrange.net/blogarchive/archives/lynching.jpg) [Street execution during the Vietnam War](http://www.cs.brown.edu/courses/cs024/images/canon/06.jpg) These photos, and thousands like them, were printed in major newspapers and magazines throughout the 20th Century. (Or, before halftone reproduction technology existed, displayed to the public in galleries.) Some of the most powerful and damning images of the last 100 years have been photographs of dead bodies … photographs that ran in magazines like Time, Life and Look that made it into virtually every American household. I’m not sure when this idyllic past you’re refering to was. Some time back before the invention of photography I suppose. Damn straight the people taking these pictures intend to stir up shit. That’s the whole point. That’s always been the point of publishing pictures like this. To shock people. To offend them. To make sure they get pissed off enough they do something about whatever it was that made those people dead in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DarkPrince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DarkPrince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkPrince)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/35 "2005-09-07T04:59:22Z")
Omg we better not print stuff like [this](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/devis/vietnam_napalm.jpg) so as not to offend our delicate sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/36 "2005-09-07T05:05:54Z")
I’m in favor of the pictures being taken. Without actual photographic evidence it would be far too easy for this administration’s supporters to later claim that stories about multitudes of dead people floating around were nothing more then exaggerations designed to smear the president. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/37 "2005-09-07T05:16:33Z")
Oh come now **Czar** they would never do anything like… oh… “Admit it, you just hate Bush! Just a mindless Bush Basher. Why do you hate Freedom, and America? I bet you would’ve voted for Sadaam as president, wouldn’t you!?! Hey, want to talk about Clinton?” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/38 "2005-09-07T05:24:13Z")
I wish FEMA had this much respect for the people of New Orleans a week and a half ago. Sorry, gotta call “coverup bullshit” on this. The sooner you get the visuals out of people’s minds, the sooner they can stop chewing your ass off for bungling the job. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/39 "2005-09-07T05:53:41Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > [Mathew Brady’s photographs of Civil War dead.](http://www.rleggat.com/photohistory/history/pics/gardner-harvest-of-death.jpg) > [Photographs of the Johnstown flood dead.](http://www.johnstownflood.com/images/5.jpg) > [Robert Capa’s photo of a man being shot during the Spanish Civil War](http://www.museodellafotografia.it/Mostre/mostre%20di%20attualita/attualita/Capa/il%20milizianoweb.jpg) > [Lynching photographs from Life magazine.](http://www.outofrange.net/blogarchive/archives/lynching.jpg) > [Street execution during the Vietnam War](http://www.cs.brown.edu/courses/cs024/images/canon/06.jpg) > > These photos, and thousands like them, were printed in major newspapers and magazines throughout the 20th Century. (Or, before halftone reproduction technology existed, displayed to the public in galleries.) Some of the most powerful and damning images of the last 100 years have been photographs of dead bodies … photographs that ran in magazines like Time, Life and Look that made it into virtually every American household. > > I’m not sure when this idyllic past you’re refering to was. Some time back before the invention of photography I suppose. > > Damn straight the people taking these pictures intend to stir up shit. That’s the whole point. That’s always been the point of publishing pictures like this. To shock people. To offend them. To make sure they get pissed off enough they do something about whatever it was that made those people dead in the first place. Well said. _applauds_ ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451/40 "2005-09-07T06:36:15Z")
I think that the dead are not what is ment to be protected but rather the handling of them. Look at the way the living where handled. I am sure after several hundred are recovered dragging, stacking, tossing, will be common. This is the image that they want protected. Anyone who wants to can find a picture of a bloated 10 day old corpse. Nothing new to many. But after what we all saw in the Convention Center with the living this may just be to much for the government to find a way to excuse themselves. Pictures will be taken allowed or not. The sad thing is gov will know it and probally give more respect to the dead than the living hoped for. In a grand attemt to save face I predict photo ops with american flags and apperant respect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fema-wont-let-the-press-photograph-recovery-of-the-dead/320451.md?page=3)