# Female Chauvinist Pigs : Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586 "2005-12-21T05:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/21 "2005-12-21T22:30:57Z")
“And in today’s immoral society, we’ve got women dressing like kids, kids dressing like whores, whores dressing like women, women dressing like whores, whores dressing like kids, and kids dressing like women! I think that just about covers all mathematical possibilities.” ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/22 "2005-12-21T22:32:21Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Moved from IMHO to GD. :sigh: I just never post to the right forum… I try, really I do. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/23 "2005-12-22T00:17:48Z")
I think it’s an age old problem. Give people the freedom to make choices and some them are going to make choices you think are wrong and some of them are going to make choices that undeniably are wrong. And when this starts happening, there’s a backlash and some people start rethinking their position on freedom of choice. And at the moment, because we’re in the middle of the second generation of feminism, it’s women who are stuck in this dilemma. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/24 "2005-12-22T00:51:27Z")
The matter of women’s interest in pornography was discussed by George Jean Nathan in the essay _Sweet Faces and Foul Minds_ which appeared in _Esquire_ magazine and was reprinted in _The Bedside Esquire_, copywrited in 1940. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/25 "2005-12-22T01:57:21Z")
> [@brightpenny](#): > > :sigh: > I just never post to the right forum… > I try, really I do. No, don’t take it personally. It’s just that the way the discussion was going, I thought it was better here. You can’t know that when you start the thread. If **tomndebb** moves it to MPSIMS, you’re really going to be bewildered! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/26 "2005-12-22T03:43:45Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Good point. Maybe it’s because I live in the Bible Belt, but I’m not seeing all these women dressed like whores (much less kids) everywhere. The only place I see them is on TV and in the movies. Maybe that’s because that’s the only place it’s really happening. I didn’t either before I got to IU Bloomington, Now it is everywhere. I think its both bad and good. Its bad because I am assuming the women are trying to compete with each other to out sluttify one another. That can probably lead to alot of self esteem problems. On the plus side, many of the women are only average looking and some have some pretty bad physical characteristics. But they still dress slutty, so maybe it’ll lead to more body acceptance. I’d rather see a woman like her body enough to dress likea slut than a woman who wears extra baggy clothes because she hates her body. ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/27 "2005-12-22T05:58:56Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > No, don’t take it personally. It’s just that the way the discussion was going, I thought it was better here. You can’t know that when you start the thread. > > If **tomndebb** moves it to MPSIMS, you’re really going to be bewildered! 🙂 Heh, no kidding. That was really nice of you to respond. I didn’t expect that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/28 "2005-12-22T15:09:07Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Meanwhile, in less than one generation we’ve made men cover up to the point where anything that’s not baggy or doesn’t pass the knees is considered risque. Never has the nudity taboo been so unevenly applied according to gender. I can’t help but wonder what effect this sort of thing has on gender relations. You obviously don’t watch much MTV or MuchMusic. Almost every male in Hip-Hop/R & B/Pop sings and dances around shirtless or in a very tight shirt. Of course all of these males have very good bodies. It isn’t just women who are being objectified. Young males see most of their musical heroes (Usher, 50 Cent) shirtless with muscular bodies. They see this, they do steriods. While not an eating disorder it is still not safe. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/29 "2005-12-22T16:05:21Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I think it’s a very interesting topic. It seems like nothing is sacred for young women anymore. The culture of sex is so ingrained in our society that there are no longer any taboos. Nothing is shocking anymore. Women feel they have to do more and more to be accepted. Why is it “exploitation” when a woman does a spread in Maxim but not when Jeff Gordon is hawking watches on the back cover of a magazine? Why is it “exploitation” when an attractive, fit woman is in an FHM shoot…but if she were a marathon runner she’d be lauded for her fitness and determination? They’re selling themselves for money - the same as we **all** do by showing up for work every day. I can’t make my money by pouting at the camera…but if I could I probably would, and I’d be happy for the chance to be paid for being “exploited”. -Joeploitation ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586/30 "2005-12-23T02:22:58Z")
> [@Queuing](#): > > You obviously don’t watch much MTV or MuchMusic. Almost every male in Hip-Hop/R & B/Pop sings and dances around shirtless or in a very tight shirt. Of course all of these males have very good bodies. It isn’t just women who are being objectified. Young males see most of their musical heroes (Usher, 50 Cent) shirtless with muscular bodies. They see this, they do steriods. While not an eating disorder it is still not safe. That’s a good point that I didn’t consider. And steroids are IMO more dangerous by far than eating disorders. I think my point does hold, though, when you look at what everyday men and women actually do wear on the beach. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-chauvinist-pigs-women-and-the-rise-of-raunch-culture/336586.md?page=1)