# Female Dopers, your opinion, please **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208 "2008-11-18T00:39:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/141 "2008-11-22T19:56:51Z")
It’s an older (35+, I guess?) woman who goes after younger men, which is apparently so very bizarre and threatening that we needed a whole new vaguely ominous term to describe it. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/142 "2008-11-22T20:03:11Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Also, any woman who believes for even 2 minutes that every straight guy she knows hasn’t thought of her while jerking off at least once is deluded. An intriguing thought. I spent some time thinking about that last night. Not an entirely unpleasant thought. But you meant all the creepy guys, right? I didn’t take them into account. ---
**Author:** ![vix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a88e4f/32.png) [@vix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vix)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/143 "2008-11-22T20:12:47Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > At forty, I’ll take my "hey beautiful!"s from anyone between the ages of 18 and death and smile about it. > [@Audrey\_Levins](#): > > Healthy eye-contact and a warm smile, followed by a short and simple compliment, are never unwelcome. (At least to me. And I’ve heard them all and have a healthy cynicism.) > > “You are a beautiful woman,” or “You are such a pretty girl!” etc., etc., are things that could be said any number of ways…but if said respectfully and without leering, they are a charming and welcome compliment and I don’t know many women who wouldn’t like to hear them. I don’t care how young or old the guy is. Equally nice are things like “You have such gorgeous eyes!” or “You have a lovely smile!” Agreed with both of the above. If it matters, I’m 35. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/144 "2008-11-22T20:23:46Z")
Since you asked. Yes, I would be uneasy. Not “creeped out” _per se_, but definitely on guard. But I recognize that my extreme sense of privacy, prudishness, and self-consciousness makes me abnormal. I also admit that I’m sexist. Middle-age women have remarked about my appearance before and I feel flattered. But when a guy does it, I feel like he’s “checking me out” and that he’s angling for something. There have been exceptions, though. I’ll never forget the time when I was working the register at a concession stand at Six Flags, and a male customer remarked that I had a “natural beauty” that was refreshing. No one had ever given me a compliment like that before, so it meant something. And it also indicated an appreciation for my personal style moreso than my physical looks. Why compliment someone for something they have no control over? If you must express your love for beauty, it may be more meaningful if you compliment women with unconventional looks. Chances a tall, leggy, busty, "modelesque "blonde will respond a lot differently than a petite, darker-featured woman with regular breasts. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/145 "2008-11-22T23:36:36Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > This presumes that anyone who compliments you actually thinks they have a shot at gettin’ wit dat. This is absolutely not true. Agreed. But the person receiving the compliment doesn’t know which is which. Is it a compliment or is it a come-on? I really do think the “creepy vibe” is running the "compliment or come-on?’ along both lines simultaneously and getting conflicting results… which seems more likely to happen in that “older, but not too much older” range for the reasons discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/146 "2008-11-23T00:43:03Z")
I find it sort of depressing that the OP is this connoisseur of True Beauty ™ and yet apparently only feels a deep longing to compliment 20-something gorgeous hotties. Apparently there are no other beautiful people than those. Me, I’m pretty, though I’ll never be a supermodel and I know it. No one ever tells me I’m pretty unless 1\> it’s my mom, 2\> it’s a “damning with faint praise” kind of deal, or 3\> it’s someone who clearly has an ulterior motive. Honestly, if I ever got a truly sincere, un-asked-for and un-looked-for compliment, it would make my day. It gets really, really hard to go through life being able to see that I’m at least reasonably pretty, yet somehow still being virtually invisible to everyone else, and not having any idea why. The trick though is that the compliment _does_ have to be sincere, and it has to be clear that you truly don’t want anything other than to make me feel good about myself. If you come across as “I wanna get laid,” I’m not going to believe you think I’m pretty, I’m going to believe you think I’m so insecure that bland flattery will convince me to jump into bed with you. And I will _not_ by flattered by that. If you have time for a conversation, however brief, I’d say engage her in a bit of chat that has nothing to do with sex or dating or your need to tell her she’s beautiful. Then you can walk away at the end with something like, “Thanks for the chat, it makes my day to have an intelligent conversation with a pretty lady.” If you don’t have the time, eye contact and a (sincere) smile is enough. BTW, I hate the cellphone idea. It’s obviously a line that I was meant to hear, and it comes across to me as someone who wants to get into my pants, but isn’t even courageous enough to try it to my face. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/147 "2008-11-23T01:23:12Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Honestly, if I ever got a truly sincere, un-asked-for and un-looked-for compliment, it would make my day. It gets really, really hard to go through life being able to see that I’m at least reasonably pretty, yet somehow still being virtually invisible to everyone else, and not having any idea why. You’re pretty hot. Was that creepy? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/148 "2008-11-23T01:55:04Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > Agreed. But the person receiving the compliment doesn’t know which is which. Is it a compliment or is it a come-on? > > I really do think the “creepy vibe” is running the "compliment or come-on?’ along both lines simultaneously and getting conflicting results… which seems more likely to happen in that “older, but not too much older” range for the reasons discussed. The thing is - you decide how you’re going to take it, in other words - Thanks, I’ll take that as a compliment. I don’t get the age range thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/149 "2008-11-23T01:57:02Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It’s an older (35+, I guess?) woman who goes after younger men, which is apparently so very bizarre and threatening that we needed a whole new vaguely ominous term to describe it. I agree - what a strange term, I mean - do cougars have a reputation for this sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/150 "2008-11-23T02:04:45Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > I agree - what a strange term, I mean - do cougars have a reputation for this sort of thing? I think it’s supposed to be a parallel to “[wolf](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wolf)” in the sense of 2a(2) in the linked definition: “a man forward, direct, and zealous in amatory attentions to women”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/151 "2008-11-23T02:09:27Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > I agree - what a strange term, I mean - do cougars have a reputation for this sort of thing? In the 20s, or thereabouts, “panther woman” was a common phrase, and referred to dominant or domineering women. I don’t know if it predates the movie of the same name or not, or if cougar is a related term (I rather doubt it). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/152 "2008-11-23T02:23:20Z")
My idea – make a card. Don’t include any personal information, nothing to suggest you have any ideas about forming any kind of relationship. “You are incredibly beautiful. I felt the need to tell you this in a manner that gives you some assurance I’m not hitting on you. Have a lovely day. You’ve certainly brightened mine.” Hand it to them, walk away without a word. Have I ever done this? No. ---
**Author:** ![Brandon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@Brandon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/153 "2008-11-23T04:15:21Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > My idea – make a card. Don’t include any personal information, nothing to suggest you have any ideas about forming any kind of relationship. > > “You are incredibly beautiful. I felt the need to tell you this in a manner that gives you some assurance I’m not hitting on you. Have a lovely day. You’ve certainly brightened mine.” > > Hand it to them, walk away without a word. > > Have I ever done this? No. I’d continue your streak for not doing that. When you qualify the compliment it will automatically put people on the defensive. The fact that you (in a general sense) took the time to even create a card like that, and then deliver it, will almost certainly send the wrong message. It is the same effect that the OP conveys, that the complimenter is trying way too hard. Seriously, a compliment in this context is meant to be light-hearted; drop all these describers like “incredibly” and “soul aching”, there is no relationship entering the equation and it is silly to worry about it even if you are hitting on them. Toss out a simple compliment and go on about your business, you don’t need to over-think the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/154 "2008-11-23T07:29:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re pretty hot. > > Was that creepy? 😃 The giant grin diffused the creepiness, but I do question your motives. 😉 You’ve never seen me, so how do you know I’m hot? And therefore how do I know you’re not just trying to flatter me into bed? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/155 "2008-11-23T08:05:28Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I think it’s less a matter of what women want than what they are willing to settle for. I would guess that most women want a guy who is their age or a bit older. They also would prefer him to be tall, handsome, intelligent, fit, wealthy, confident, sociable, and have a good sense of humor. (Of course, just about everyone has to compromise.) > > So, the question is what happens when a guy wanders along who is otherwise reasonably desirable but is a lot older than the girl, like 15 or 20 years older. Well, like you mentioned, almost everyone has to compromise somewhere. As far as whether it is a deal breaker or not, of course, depends on the woman. I was simply commenting on that ridiculous formula mentioned earlier, as it seems to seems to lend itself to the assumption that younger women just love men old enough to be their father. It just really depends on the woman. For me, an absolute deal breaker. Obviously, others disagree and enjoy men that much older. > [@brazil84](#): > > Imagine if you got 2 or 3 calls a night from telemarketers and one evening a salesman called you, not to sell you anything but just to say “hi” and compliment you in some way. First of all, it would still be annoying even if you believed it. Second, you would never believe it. Excellent analogy. I guess I just can’t imagine having my day made by getting a compliment from a stranger unless I was having an earthshatteringly shitty day. Other ladies here say it would (or has) made their day, so (like everything else in life) mileage varies. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/156 "2008-11-23T11:25:21Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Well, like you mentioned, almost everyone has to compromise somewhere. As far as whether it is a deal breaker or not, of course, depends on the woman. I was simply commenting on that ridiculous formula mentioned earlier, as it seems to seems to lend itself to the assumption that younger women just love men old enough to be their father. It just really depends on the woman. For me, an absolute deal breaker. Obviously, others disagree and enjoy men that much older. I don’t think the purpose of the formula was to set forth the ideal age gap. But anyway, as you suggest, what is ideal for the prospective boyfriend may not be ideal for the prospective girlfriend. For example, for a man in his late 30s, his ideal woman might be about 25 years old. But for a girl who is 25, her ideal man might be about 28. If she did date and marry a man who is 38, it would be a compromise. Similarly, if our 38 year old man dated and married a 35 year old girl, it may be a compromise. And you are right — for some people, age is a deal breaker. Personally, if I were single and looking to get married, I would probably not marry a woman who is 35+, even though I am 35+ myself. From a broader perspective, it is clear that male sexual interest is focused on younger women. This is obviously driven by a mismatch in fertility, which causes a lot of misery for men and women both. > [@](#): > > Excellent analogy. Thank you. > [@](#): > > I guess I just can’t imagine having my day made by getting a compliment from a stranger unless I was having an earthshatteringly shitty day. Other ladies here say it would (or has) made their day, so (like everything else in life) mileage varies. I gather from your posts that you are a woman in the age range where lots of men chase after her. I imagine you may feel differently when you reach a point where your looks start to fade. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/157 "2008-11-23T16:39:24Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > The giant grin diffused the creepiness, but I do question your motives. 😉 > > You’ve never seen me, so how do you know I’m hot? And therefore how do I know you’re not just trying to flatter me into bed? 😃 You know you have a link to your webpage posted, right? 😉 Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/158 "2008-11-23T17:59:22Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I gather from your posts that you are a woman in the age range where lots of men chase after her. I imagine you may feel differently when you reach a point where your looks start to fade. Nope, I’m 33. Maybe you’re right, but I don’t get my self esteem (see, self!) from the opinions of men on the street. I have no interest in marriage and choose never to have children, so the fertility mismatch you mention doesn’t really bother me. I do what I can to take good care of myself, but I know that everyone’s looks fade eventually. If I end up looking as good as my mother does, then I’ll be thrilled. She’s in her late 50s and doesn’t even look close to that age. Still, our imperfect bodies are a shell and it won’t hold up forever. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/159 "2008-11-23T21:05:30Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Nope, I’m 33. Maybe you’re right, but I don’t get my self esteem (see, self!) from the opinions of men on the street. I have no interest in marriage and choose never to have children, so the fertility mismatch you mention doesn’t really bother me. > > I do what I can to take good care of myself, but I know that everyone’s looks fade eventually. If I end up looking as good as my mother does, then I’ll be thrilled. She’s in her late 50s and doesn’t even look close to that age. Still, our imperfect bodies are a shell and it won’t hold up forever. C’est la vie. Huh. I’m about the same age, 30, and my mom’s also in her late 50s and doesn’t look close to that age. I’m a guy, but I’d be thrilled if I aged as gracefully as my mom. I generally didn’t hear a lot of compliments about my looks when I was a teenager and in my 20s. I don’t think that this was because I was unattractive in some fashion, but because I was shy and unready to hear the compliments that did come–I always rationalized it as “they’re being nice” or something like that. I think this is a fairly common place to be (though I do think I was a slightly extreme example) and I think that sincere compliments couched in a way that the person can accept and hear are very positive things. The key concepts in that sentence are “sincere” and “in a way that the person can accept and hear [it]”. In the OP’s case I really have to wonder if he will be able to do it. I don’t mean to pick on him, but it can be a hard thing to do. To do it right it has to be said in the proper manner and at the appropriate time. Otherwise it just doesn’t work. When you are in your 40s and they are in their 20s the options are particularly limited. I actually think it would do the OP good to spend some time trying to sincerely compliment people closer to his own age. It’s a safer venue where he can practice non-creepy compliments. Eventually he may learn how to do it such a way as to come off as non-creepy even to adolescents and I think practicing this will (or can) open his eyes to the numinous beauty of older people as well. One last thought. I firmly believe that beauty is _not_ so much about physical things as about mental things. I definitely see that there is an important physical aspect to it, but I think the viewer’s perceptions and expectations and the viewee’s mental and emotional state are at least as important. From my own experience I find that if I actually get to know a person I will see beauty and ugliness/plainness on the same person. Virtually the only reason that a person gets stuck in one category or the other is if my interactions with them are brief and not very deep. If you are objectifying a person then you will probably find that their physical attributes (or perceived physical attributes) play a larger role in whether you think they are attractive, but the moment you start to think of them more as human beings, the more their non-physical attributes come into play. The point of this last thought is that the less you know the person, the more likely it is that it’s a physical thing that you are responding to. I don’t feel there is anything wrong with that in and of itself, rather I think that it is important to realize that. Any compliment to a young woman you barely know is probably based on a purely physical response and you should recognize that. Even if it isn’t it perfectly reasonable for her to interpret it that way, which is why you should probably keep it to yourself for the most part. This is also why it’s probably better to compliment their hair or clothing or some other physical thing rather than a simple “Oh you are achingly beautiful” or something like that; it’s more believable. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208/160 "2008-11-24T01:34:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You know you have a link to your webpage posted, right? 😉 Just sayin’. Okay, yes, but you didn’t mention that you’d actually looked there. 😛 This would explain the sudden spike in traffic today, though. I was quite puzzled by that for a bit there! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-dopers-your-opinion-please/473208.md?page=9)