# Female "Magical Negros" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596 "2010-09-22T00:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JCorre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@JCorre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JCorre)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/21 "2010-09-22T06:44:43Z")
:headslap: Yeah I missed that. Sorry **Tim**! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/22 "2010-09-22T15:46:01Z")
“Oracle” doesn’t fit the stereotype, anyway. First of all, “she” is not even a person, it’s a program. Second, she doesn’t exist just to guide the white protagonist; everyone goes to see the Oracle. Third, she clearly has her own agenda and guiding humans is a means to her own ends. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/23 "2010-09-22T16:13:17Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > “Oracle” doesn’t fit the stereotype, anyway. First of all, “she” is not even a person, it’s a program. But she’s played by a person in the movie. A black female person. And that’s the point. > [@](#): > > Second, she doesn’t exist just to guide the white protagonist; everyone goes to see the Oracle. We only know of 3 of the Oracle’s prophesies: (1) Giving the white hero self-confidence, (2) giving the white hero a mentor, and (3) giving the white hero a girlfriend. > [@](#): > > Third, she clearly has her own agenda and guiding humans is a means to her own ends. None of which is apparent or relevant to the first film, where she is most prominently the FMN. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/24 "2010-09-22T16:15:26Z")
Where does Queen Latifah as “Mama” from **Chicago** fit in? She definitely ain’t desexualized. She’ll help you out…if the price is right. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/25 "2010-09-22T16:15:41Z")
I don’t recall the Oracle in the Matrix (I’m not sure I saw past the first movie, actually, and that was only once. I should probably watch them all), but the stereotype I’m thinking of tends to be sort of, “down-home.” I’m not sure if the Oracle is like that, again, don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/26 "2010-09-22T16:17:17Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > the stereotype of an older, usually larger, desexualized black woman who is motherly and warm and wise and such. Carla (the character on mad men) isn’t really like this, but usually they tend to be all no-nonsense about everything, and give sage advice succinctly. They might be a fan of “tough love,” and can occasionally be gruff, but you know deep down they love you. And are right about most things, most of the time. > > [snip] > every large black woman I might encounter is full of country-fried wisdom and will invite me to her house to have absurdly good homemade pie. > > Anyone else notice this or have any thoughts? Well if you’re looking for a contrary example of this, **Mo’Nique** ’s turn as the uber-hideous mother from **Precious** : (Based on the blah, blah, blah) fits the bill. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/27 "2010-09-22T16:18:21Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > Mother Sister in _Do the Right Thing_? Are you asking? Because if you are, then I’d say the answer is a definitive No. A MN, male or female, is conspicuous because they’re usually the only (or one of a very few) person of color in the story. Definitely doesn’t apply to _DtRT_. Also, the MN gives advice and acts as a mentor or seer. Maybe Da Mayor (Ossie Davis) fits into this role, but not Mother Sister. Just because the character is older, female and black doesn’t automatically make her a FMN. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/28 "2010-09-22T16:50:32Z")
In reading the original thread, I did think that you really don’t see a female ‘MN’ very often. The closest I came up with was the Mammy character who isn’t so much magical as someone who gives more time and attention to the white family members she works for/lives with/owned by than her own children or fellow servants, etc. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/29 "2010-09-22T17:00:55Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > I don’t recall the Oracle in the Matrix (I’m not sure I saw past the first movie, actually, and that was only once. I should probably watch them all), but the stereotype I’m thinking of tends to be sort of, “down-home.” I’m not sure if the Oracle is like that, again, don’t remember. She absolutely is. She has a bit of a folksy charm, and she’s dressed like a 1950’s housewife, smoking a cigarette and baking cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/30 "2010-09-22T17:12:51Z")
Tia Dalma is probably the most famous in recent years (though I _H-A-T-E-D_ the movies she was in due to the horrible writing). There was a 1980s TV series produced by Stephen King called _Amazing Stories_- an anthology inspired by old sci-fi/fantasy mags with each episode being self-contained. One was called _[The Sitter](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0511126/)_ and starred Mabel King (the rotund black actress best remembered as Mama on _What’s Happening?_ or as Steve Martin’s mother in _The Jerk_) who played a Voodoo variant of Mary Poppins. (I didn’t remember him until I read the credits, but Seth Green played the very bad little boy in the episode.) Spielberg actually considered doing a series based on this episode, but unfortunately Mabel King’s health nosedived and apparently he didn’t want anybody else and or got busy with other things, so it died. > [@outlierrn](#): > > Are you serious? The Guinan character on Star Trek I can see, but in Ghost she’s a shrill charlatan that Swaze bullies into helping him against her will. But the reason he’s able to bully her in the first place is that she _does_ have supernatural powers, it’s just that she’s in her 30s (or whatever age her character’s supposed to be) when they first click in. After they do she can communicate with all sorts of ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/31 "2010-09-22T17:29:57Z")
Heylia James on Weeds definitely fits the bill. One of her character arcs actually has her state that she is done with men. She is constantly giving lessons about how to 1. deal drugs 2. launder money 3. be tough. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/32 "2010-09-22T17:39:57Z")
> [@Disheavel](#): > > Heylia James on Weeds definitely fits the bill. One of her character arcs actually has her state that she is done with men. She is constantly giving lessons about how to 1. deal drugs 2. launder money 3. be tough. Yes, absolutely! This is a perfect example, I think. She’s all tough-talkin’ too, but you know she loves Conrad, and her daughter whose name I forgot, even if she is a bit reluctant to show it sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/33 "2010-09-22T17:42:28Z")
[del]Keeping with[/del] Returning to the Whoopi Goldberg theme, there’s her performance in [_Clara’s Heart_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094882/). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/34 "2010-09-22T18:13:05Z")
> [@Disheavel](#): > > Heylia James on Weeds definitely fits the bill. I hated that they ditched her character from the show. She was one of the only ones I liked- true she was a drug dealer, but unlike the lead character she wasn’t a silly easily led spoiled whinebag always making the world’s stupidest decisions and leading her kids into total ruin, but a woman who’d been managing to do this for many years _without_ getting in trouble with the cops or having her kids turning into juvies and murderers. In fact if _she_ were the star of WEEDS I think it’d be on par with _The Sopranos_ or _True Blood_ in terms of cult following, because that’s a story that hasn’t been told before. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/35 "2010-09-22T18:21:33Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > > [@BlankSlate](#): > > > > “Oracle” doesn’t fit the stereotype, anyway. First of all, “she” is not even a person, it’s a program. > > But she’s played by a person in the movie. A black female person. And that’s the point.We only know of 3 of the Oracle’s prophesies: (1) Giving the white hero self-confidence, (2) giving the white hero a mentor, and (3) giving the white hero a girlfriend. > > > [@](#): > > > > Third, she clearly has her own agenda and guiding humans is a means to her own ends. > > None of which is apparent or relevant to the first film, where she is most prominently the FMN. The Oracle is a device. This all just underscores the silliness of this trope. The Oracle could be an old white man or an Asian child or even a robot. But then, of course, it would be a _magical_ robot. ---
**Author:** ![carlotta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@carlotta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlotta)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/36 "2010-09-23T17:19:58Z")
I think the character of August in _The Secret Life of Bees_ fits the trope. Queen Latifah plays her in the movie. She takes in a runaway white girl, no questions asked, dispenses much wisdom and unconditional love, and then turns out to be the only person who knows “the truth” about her (white girl’s) mother. and she has a magical statue of a black Madonna in her living room. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596/37 "2010-09-23T18:29:58Z")
Blank Slate, you do get that the Matrix was a movie written by real people and a real casting director had to choose who to put into that role. They chose a wise old sage of a black women because you identify with the FMN as being benevolent and wise in regards to the white hero. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-magical-negros/554596.md?page=1)