# Female-Only Services **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298 "2014-09-12T16:06:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/21 "2014-09-13T00:29:35Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > These aren’t private enterprises. These are taxis. They drive on public streets _all day_. They take up about 20x more “street space” than a private vehicle that is driven, say, 40 minutes a day. They idle at public transportation venues like air ports and bus stops, and they put out X times as much air pollution as a normal commuter. > > Simply put, taxis are a blight on public infrastructure. Why should men have to put up with that cost when they can’t use the service? Merely paying tax money that goes partially to public infrastructure does not put one in control of that public infrastructure. The free market solution to the problem is very simple. If there are women customers who truly want a women-only taxi service, let them have it. Why should the government be involved in deciding who can and can’t ride in a particular taxi? It’s not as if the proposed service is going to make it impossible, or even slightly difficult, for any man to get a taxi when he wants it. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/22 "2014-09-13T03:26:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Here](https://www.multisoftevents.com/HNBA/Register.aspx) and [here](http://www.nationalbcc.org/images/stories/documents/General_Membership.pdf) are the membership application forms for the two groups you mentioned. I can’t see where they ask if you’re Hispanic or black. So I don’t think they discriminate. Maybe they don’t. But think about the last time you saw a civic group called the White Chamber of Commerce. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/23 "2014-09-13T03:29:16Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > As a waiter, I’d go for only serving white people because they tip better. It’s statistically proven just as much as your “male passengers are dangerous” belief. Is it moral for a business to refuse black and hispanic customers? Why [del]or why[/del] not? Well “less in tips” is a lot less compelling than “less likely to pull a gun on me and kill me” for sure. Actually I think as tippers go, women are right down there, too. But they’re less likely to pull something in a cab, not to mention that I believe some riders would do it just because they perceived a female cabbie as weaker. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/24 "2014-09-13T05:05:03Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Merely paying tax money that goes partially to public infrastructure does not put one in control of that public infrastructure. > …Why should the government be involved in deciding who can and can’t ride in a particular taxi? The government doesn’t pay taxes. The government is in control of public infrastructure. That’s why. Obviously. > [@](#): > > It’s not as if the proposed service is going to make it impossible, or even slightly difficult, for any man to get a taxi when he wants it. No, but it makes it harder to get home from work. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/25 "2014-09-14T00:05:12Z")
In every town I’ve known, taxi’s are licensed - the “Medallion” - which cost thousands of dollars in SF. There are only so many of these in existence. If this "female only service actually has real licenses (not the “gypsy” cabs like lyft and the like), then they are licensed on the condition that they accept all fares. Yes, there parts of big cities where you can call every cab in town and none of them will come. That is NOT checking your sex. If the same person who can’t get a cab in the ghetto would call from a different area, a cab would come. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/26 "2014-09-14T00:27:52Z")
Again, the company in question is operating or planning to operate a [livery service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_States#Car_service). They don’t have medallions and can’t be flagged down on the street. They can only respond to people who call in to the company and request a car. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/27 "2014-09-14T01:16:29Z")
Will I be facing an EEOC complaint if I call an escort service instead of a livery service? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/28 "2014-09-14T02:17:28Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > My entirely non-lawyerly opinion: The whole thing might be a lot more practical if women had the option of requesting a female driver from a taxi company that employs both men and women. Fine, as long as can demand a white driver, or a gay one, as long as I wait. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/29 "2014-09-14T14:09:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Again, the company in question is operating or planning to operate a [livery service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_States#Car_service). They don’t have medallions and can’t be flagged down on the street. They can only respond to people who call in to the company and request a car. That changes nothing. They’re still a commercial venture interfering with public transit that is refusing to accept customers of a protected class. No, you can’t do that on the excuse that you’re irrationally afraid of that class. “No, your honor, it’s not that I hate black people, it’s that I’m just afraid of them.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/30 "2014-09-14T15:01:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Fine, as long as can demand a white driver, or a gay one, as long as I wait. But we’ve heard arguments in this thread that this is simply not the same because your preference for a white driver shows you invidious discrimination against other races. Whereas a preferences for a female taxi driver doesn’t show a hatred for males in general, but simply a desire to be safe with a female taxi driver. I think it is just linguistic sophistry. One could easily say that he doesn’t hate other races in general but just prefers to be safer in a taxi with a white driver. Or that one doesn’t hate blacks in general but just prefers to golf or dine with other whites. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/31 "2014-09-14T15:07:09Z")
The reason shouldn’t matter, the discrimination should. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/32 "2014-09-14T16:22:29Z")
I think this highlights that you cannot be black and white about discrimination (hah!) Meaning, you have to weigh up the harm caused to those being discriminated against the reasons for the discrimination. Most people, for example, are completely fine with the existence of women-only gyms. No particular harm is done to men (while there are plenty of unisex and (de facto) mens gyms around), and the reason for doing it is not to generalize about all men, or restrict what men can do. The examples in the OP are borderline though. I still can’t completely make my mind up, and maybe some more specifics about these policies could push me either way. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/33 "2014-09-14T18:40:54Z")
Ultimately, two wrongs don’t make a right. If men are causing women to feel uncomfortable in gyms or taxis (or wherever), then those men need to be dealt with. The thing is, some (but not all) of the time, the men are doing nothing wrong, and should not be discriminated against. So, yes, I do have a problem with women-only gyms. But, I certainly don’t think that the answer would be simply to ban them, but to ensure that _all_ gyms are safe and reasonably comfortable for women. Taxis are already licensed and journeys logged, so there’s no great danger there. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/34 "2014-09-14T19:41:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ultimately, two wrongs don’t make a right. If men are causing women to feel uncomfortable in gyms or taxis (or wherever), then those men need to be dealt with. The thing is, some (but not all) of the time, the men are doing nothing wrong, and should not be discriminated against. > > So, yes, I do have a problem with women-only gyms. But, I certainly don’t think that the answer would be simply to ban them, but to ensure that _all_ gyms are safe and reasonably comfortable for women. > > Taxis are already licensed and journeys logged, so there’s no great danger there. I agree but for a different reason. I don’t have a problem with female only gyms because of the unique differences between the sexes. But if we say that men can’t have (public accommodations) golf courses, social clubs, and card rooms for the _exact same reason_ then we have to be consistent. But even worse, these female cab companies’ logic can equally apply to racial discrimination instead of simply gender. “I have a fear backed by statistical logic” if determined to be a proper standard, could bring back racial segregation. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/35 "2014-09-14T20:10:39Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > My entirely non-lawyerly opinion: The whole thing might be a lot more practical if women had the option of requesting a female driver from a taxi company that employs both men and women. Do they not have the option of requesting such at present? The worst that can happen is that they say they don’t have a female driver available. Well, I suppose you might face some social stigma. Like if you phoned a taxi company and said “Can I have a white driver? Them niggers are trouble.” Still, it’s definitely an option now. Another option is to cleanse yourself of hate and intolerance and realise a cab driver is a cab driver. > [@Bozuit](#): > > A question: statistically, are women at risk of attack by licensed taxi drivers, rather than just from illegal ones? The stories I hear all seem to involve getting into what is, essentially, a random stranger’s car, not a licensed cab. There’s been a spate of false accusations, from which the drivers escaped by showing footage from internal cameras. Every increasing numbers of taxis are installing cameras onboard, not to protect women from rape, but to protect their drivers from false accusations by women who don’t want to pay their fares. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/36 "2014-09-14T20:37:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The New York Times article mentioned that some Orthodox Jewish women would only ride in a cab with a female driver. Some Muslim women may have the same need. I will not ride alone in a cab with a male driver unless I have my hand gun with me. And my hand will be in my purse with fingers on the trigger. I have had too many close calls to do otherwise. Men who consider a female-only livery service such a bad thing should consider that women who have had negative experiences with men are not going to be tolerant of any threatening or questionable behavior by a male driver. A lot of situations that could turn dangerous (or if not dangerous at least job jeopardizing) could be avoided if women have an option of not being forced alone with a man. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/37 "2014-09-14T21:13:35Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > But we’ve heard arguments in this thread that this is simply not the same because your preference for a white driver shows you invidious discrimination against other races. > > Whereas a preferences for a female taxi driver doesn’t show a hatred for males in general, but simply a desire to be safe with a female taxi driver. > > I think it is just linguistic sophistry. If I want to present an argument I’ll present it myself. I don’t think anyone needs you to take what I’ve said, mix your misunderstanding of my argument up with your misunderstanding of discrimination law, and serve it up along with an accusation of dishonesty in a little misbegotten cocktail to people you’ve judged to be on your side. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/38 "2014-09-14T23:50:36Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I will not ride alone in a cab with a male driver unless I have my hand gun with me. And my hand will be in my purse with fingers on the trigger. I have had too many close calls to do otherwise. Men who consider a female-only livery service such a bad thing should consider that women who have had negative experiences with men are not going to be tolerant of any threatening or questionable behavior by a male driver. A lot of situations that could turn dangerous (or if not dangerous at least job jeopardizing) could be avoided if women have an option of not being forced alone with a man. Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/39 "2014-09-14T23:53:14Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I agree but for a different reason. I don’t have a problem with female only gyms because of the unique differences between the sexes. But if we say that men can’t have (public accommodations) golf courses, social clubs, and card rooms for the _exact same reason_ then we have to be consistent. > > But even worse, these female cab companies’ logic can equally apply to racial discrimination instead of simply gender. “I have a fear backed by statistical logic” if determined to be a proper standard, could bring back racial segregation. Uh, male-only social clubs exist. Fraternities and other college social associations are one example, stuff like the Knights of Colombus is another. I think it’s illegal to have a _business_ that serves only men (I don’t necessarily agree with the law, but that’s the law as it stands), but a purely social club is not a business. Suppressing a social club from discriminating against a certain gender (or for that matter a certain religion, etc.) seems like it would fairly obviously violate the right to free association. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298/40 "2014-09-15T05:58:03Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Is there an employee pool of women fed up with the lousy pay from working retail or food service who will be happy with the lousy pay from cab driving, now that they are less likely to be robbed and assaulted by male fares? > > Retail workers already are in danger of robbery and assault. Look at the security camera footage of convenience store hold ups. It’s mostly though not exclusively young men working the counter at night, when the creepy crawlies come out. And single moms are not going to be as available to drive at night anyway. > > They’ll get around the legality by dispatching male drivers for male fares with no loss of accommodation. But the woman hacks will come at an upcharge by necessity. I used to manage a 24 hour petrol station - I would not have hired a lady for the graveyard shift, we had a 50 something year old man doing the 11 till 7 shift. Of course - would never say that “officially” - but there could be a reason why you don’t see so many ladies doing the night shift in skeevy places other than they don’t want to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/female-only-services/698298.md?page=3)