# Feminists and misandry. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 27, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685 "2018-02-27T18:38:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/21 "2018-02-28T01:08:23Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > “Misandry” usually is used to mean hate for patriarchal or masculine norms, rather than as hatred for each man individually. “Some of my best friends are black!” ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/22 "2018-02-28T01:11:58Z")
I don’t think its common. The people who do act that way are an emotionally disturbed minority. But on the subject, I was peeved when I saw this remark about Ronda Rousey committing domestic violence. > **[When it comes to Ronda Rousey, is there a domestic-violence double standard?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/11/11/when-it-comes-to-ronda-rousey-is-there-a-domestic-violence-double-standard/?utm_term=.c640e2babe29)** > > The superstar UFC champion admits to beating up an ex, but little public outrage has followed -- unlike the cases of Ray Rice and Greg Hardy. > [@](#): > > she describes confronting the man she called “Snappers McCreepy” and slapping him so hard “my hand hurt.” Then: > > “I punched him in the face with a straight right, then a left hook,” she writes. “He staggered back and fell against the door. > > [Expletive] my hands, I thought. I can’t hurt them before a fight. > > “I slapped him with my right hand. He still wouldn’t move. Then I grabbed him by the neck of his hoodie, kneed him in the face and tossed him aside on the kitchen floor.” > > The fight ended when she walked out to her car and he jumped into the passenger seat, asking her to hear him out. “I walked around the car, pulled him by the neck of the hoodie again, dragged him onto the sidewalk and left him writhing there as I sped away.” > [@](#): > > Still, “I’m not comfortable with her behavior,” Kim Pentico of the National Network to End Domestic Violence, told Adelson. “What I am absolutely not willing to say is she’s committed domestic violence without speaking with him and learning more about that relationship.” Stuff like that gives feminist activists a bad name, refusing to admit wrongdoing when it doesn’t fit your social justice narrative. But who knows how important the NNEDV is, or how important Pentico’s role in it is. I feel that ties into what OP is saying. That may not be misandry, but it is politicization of domestic violence to fit an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/23 "2018-02-28T01:44:44Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > “Some of my best friends are black!” That’s exactly the kind of thing it’s an ironic play on. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/24 "2018-02-28T01:48:01Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t think its common. The people who do act that way are an emotionally disturbed minority. > > But on the subject, I was peeved when I saw this remark about Ronda Rousey committing domestic violence. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/11/11/when-it-comes-to-ronda-rousey-is-there-a-domestic-violence-double-standard/?utm\_term=.c640e2babe29](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/11/11/when-it-comes-to-ronda-rousey-is-there-a-domestic-violence-double-standard/?utm_term=.c640e2babe29) > > Stuff like that gives feminist activists a bad name, refusing to admit wrongdoing when it doesn’t fit your social justice narrative. But who knows how important the NNEDV is, or how important Pentico’s role in it is. I feel that ties into what OP is saying. That may not be misandry, but it is politicization of domestic violence to fit an agenda. This doesn’t seem like a very good case to point to for that purpose–the article itself lays out the case that this was _not_ domestic violence. It wasn’t part of a pattern of violence, and it didn’t function to maintain control or power. The person you quoted wasn’t saying what Roussey did was definitely okay, she was saying it’s not domestic violence. That’s not a double standard. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/25 "2018-02-28T03:06:09Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > This doesn’t seem like a very good case to point to for that purpose–the article itself lays out the case that this was _not_ domestic violence. It wasn’t part of a pattern of violence, and it didn’t function to maintain control or power. > > The person you quoted wasn’t saying what Roussey did was definitely okay, she was saying it’s not domestic violence. That’s not a double standard. I don’t agree. If the genders were reversed I don’t think she would be saying those things, that it didn’t count as domestic violence since it didn’t fit into a pattern. I think the rationalization she is using (it needs to be a pattern) is secondary to the gender double standards she is using. ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/26 "2018-02-28T03:54:05Z")
Not all feminists are women. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/27 "2018-02-28T14:00:26Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t agree. If the genders were reversed I don’t think she would be saying those things, that it didn’t count as domestic violence since it didn’t fit into a pattern. > > I think the rationalization she is using (it needs to be a pattern) is secondary to the gender double standards she is using. …from the article: > [@](#): > > He noted that the Justice Department defines domestic violence as “a pattern of abusive behavior that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over another intimate partner.” It is unclear whether there was a pattern and DiGorrio, like many men, did not call police. It isn’t the “rationalization she is using.” Its the definition of domestic violence, as defined by the Justice Department. If the genders were reversed, if it was a one-off incident that happened in identical circumstances, the incident, by definition, would also **not be domestic violence.** Kim Pentico did not, as you characterize it, “refuse to admit wrongdoing.” She clearly stated she wasn’t comfortable with it, but she couldn’t call it domestic violence unless she spoke to the victim to find out if there was a pattern of abusive behaviour. There is no double standard at play here. Kim Pentico has not “given feminism a bad name.” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/28 "2018-02-28T15:12:09Z")
> [@Hiero](#): > > I’ve been to notice something lately. Some feminists have been saying they are “misandry supporters.” Representative cites, please? > [@](#): > > Aren’t they just making the sex gap worse? Some are saying that ALL men should be killed. Do you guys think they are properly representing feminism? Are you talking about [Valerie Solanas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Solanas) or did you have someone more recent in mind? > [@](#): > > Also, on a side note, someone recently said to me, “Women can’t be sexist.” What do you think about that? I’m really curious to see the public opinion on this, and hopefully, if there are any on this website, a feminist to respond and put their opinion on it. Depends on how you define your terms. What most people mean when they say “women can’t be sexist” is that “women can’t oppress men, in this context, by being sexist”. They’re saying that sexism of the conventional variety is a tool for keeping women down within the context of a system where women are, in fact, down. Men aren’t down, as a class, in relationship to the class of women and therefore women being biased or holding unfair generalized attitudes or imputing a set of negative characteristics to men as a class are “not being sexist” because (as they use the word) sexism is a systemic oppressive phenomenon, not a set of nasty unfair attitudes. I don’t agree with that approach to how to use the words (we have “patriarchal”; and it would make more sense to say “women can’t be matriarchal oppressors in a patriarchal society” rather than “women can’t be sexist”) but let’s not pretend they’re spouting bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/29 "2018-02-28T15:18:43Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …from the article: > > It isn’t the “rationalization she is using.” Its the definition of domestic violence, as defined by the Justice Department. If the genders were reversed, if it was a one-off incident that happened in identical circumstances, the incident, by definition, would also **not be domestic violence.** > > Kim Pentico did not, as you characterize it, “refuse to admit wrongdoing.” She clearly stated she wasn’t comfortable with it, but she couldn’t call it domestic violence unless she spoke to the victim to find out if there was a pattern of abusive behaviour. There is no double standard at play here. Kim Pentico has not “given feminism a bad name.” So beating the hell out of your spouse is not domestic violence just so long as you only do it once? Do you people really, really believe if the genders were reversed that you guys and Kim Pentico would be making this same argument? A guy could knee his girlfriend in the face after punching her several times, but it didn’t count as DV since it maybe only happened once? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/30 "2018-02-28T20:03:05Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > So beating the hell out of your spouse is not domestic violence just so long as you only do it once? …exactly what part of the definition of domestic violence provided by the justice department are you struggling to understand? > [@](#): > > Do you people really, really believe if the genders were reversed that you guys and Kim Pentico would be making this same argument? Yep. > [@](#): > > A guy could knee his girlfriend in the face after punching her several times, but it didn’t count as DV since it maybe only happened once? Exactly what part of the definition of domestic violence provided by the justice department are you struggling to understand? It would be classified as [domestic violence where I live](https://nzfvc.org.nz/content/family-violence-policy-and-legal-definitions). It wouldn’t happen to be domestic violence where you live. If you have a problem with that, then get the definition changed. Until you do that though what Kim said was entirely correct. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/31 "2018-02-28T20:09:27Z")
So if acquaintance-abuse occurs in a location that doesn’t categorize domestic violence as a crime at all, then it _definitely_ wouldn’t be domestic violence? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/32 "2018-02-28T20:15:52Z")
Colloquially, I’d call it domestic violence if someone attacked an intimate partner a single time, without justification. I’m surprised it’s not classified that way. Learn something new every day! HOLD THE FUCKIN TRAIN, someone is thinking, WITHOUT JUSTIFICATION? WHAT BULLSHIT IS THAT! I can hear you all the way over here. Yeah, “without justification.” At one end of the spectrum, if someone realizes that their intimate partner is getting ready to murder their child and attacks the partner, I wouldn’t call that attack domestic violence; it’d be justified. That’s what I mean. Sometimes violence is justified, and colloquially, “domestic violence” refers to the other kind. Rousey just found out that her boyfriend had taken nude photos of her. Was this a crime? Nude photos are often used by bitter exes to commit revenge porn attacks, and these are often really traumatizing to their victims, to the degree that revenge porn attacks are felonies (I think, not looking the laws up right now). Did Rousey think she was the target of such a crime? Did she think she was about to be? If so, it edges closer to a “justified” attack, although I think I’d still consider it unjustified unless there’s some additional information. The OP is either describing some sort of fantasy, or is talking about people with zero power to affect the world; in either case I can’t be bothered to care about it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685/33 "2018-03-01T02:16:37Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > So if acquaintance-abuse occurs in a location that doesn’t categorize domestic violence as a crime at all, then it _definitely_ wouldn’t be domestic violence? …I think the context of which the words “domestic abuse” were used in the article was pretty crystal clear. You are welcome to use the words “domestic abuse” in any way you deem fit. But if you were to use it to make Kim Pentico appear as if she had “given feminism a bad name” I would point out that you were taking her statements entirely out of context. And if you were to use her statement as an example of a “double standard surrounding domestic violence” I would suggest that I’m sure you could probably dig up examples of the “double standard” existing, but this wouldn’t be an example of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-and-misandry/809685.md?page=1)