# Feminists lobby to keep stimulus jobs away from men **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-lobby-to-keep-stimulus-jobs-away-from-men/500977 "2009-06-25T20:06:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-lobby-to-keep-stimulus-jobs-away-from-men/500977/41 "2009-06-26T22:37:38Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > My rebuttal was substantive. And for someone who is so saddened to see even silly-seeming arguments dismissed, you certainly have not confronted the point raised in mine: The male job/female job distinction, on which the complained of unfairness in stimulus project priority is predicated, is utterly illusory. Since men are allowed to be nursing assistants just as women are, how can it be that moving dollars from construction projects to health care projects significantly disadvantages men? Contrast this with: > [@](#): > > Hey! Did you hear the big news??? Dudes can be nurses and elementary school teachers and social workers now too!! Just like ladies!! Craziness!!! You may characterize this second-quoted (but first posted) line as a rebuttal, and substantive. But when compared to your first-quoted post, I would gently suggest that of the two, the first-quoted one is the example of substance others should emulate. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-lobby-to-keep-stimulus-jobs-away-from-men/500977/42 "2009-06-27T04:35:05Z")
> [@](#): > > **Broomstick** : We should direct stimulus money to what we need, not for social engineering. I don’t think that I would call NOW’s plan of action “social engineering.” They do advocate for women, of course, but I would think this focuses more on economics. I will have to assume that there is still a teacher shortage – there almost always is. And I have read recent statistics about the nursing shortage. This _is_ where money is needed. Male nurses are very common now. There is no reason why men cannot take advantage of this part of the stimulus program. And certainly we need more men in classroom teaching roles – especially in elementary school. But let’s just say for a moment that NOW’s scheme works and they get the percentage of jobs in traditional women’s roles that they are asking for. Will the stimulus go toward forming more jobs in traditionally men’s jobs or traditionally women’s jobs? Men’s jobs, of course! 58% of the jobs are still going to be in traditionally men’s jobs. Those nasty women at NOW aren’t even trying to get half of the jobs! Again, NOW advocates for women. Aren’t single _mothers_ usually the parent that takes the baby home from the hospital? Are women the ones who are paid less? You have only to look at the panic in this OP to see how women are still marginalized. But don’t confuse _that_ with a feminist: > [@](#): > > **AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet** : Do you believe that men and women should be equal in all ways? Then you’re a feminist. > [@](#): > > **Justin Bailey** : No, you’re not. Unless you’re a masculinist too. No, sorry, **Justin**. The words do not have “equal but opposite” meaning. A _masculinist_ believes in male superiority. A _feminist_ believes in gender equality – economically, socially, and politically. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-lobby-to-keep-stimulus-jobs-away-from-men/500977/43 "2009-06-29T14:54:05Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > We don’t need structurally sound bridges? Oh course not. Gotta drum up business for all the new hospitals somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-lobby-to-keep-stimulus-jobs-away-from-men/500977/44 "2009-06-30T09:11:47Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > So, I guess you could say “Men aren’t being persecuted after all!” I’ve yet to see any evidence that somehow men are being disadvantaged because the number of construction jobs have been reduced and the number of physician assistant jobs have been increased, since as you and I have pointed out, men and women can qualify for those jobs. But you can’t directly compare the two as the educational requirements for a physician assistant is greater than that for a blue collar construction job, therefore those that have already lost their jobs can’t just transfer without expensive retraining. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-lobby-to-keep-stimulus-jobs-away-from-men/500977/45 "2009-06-30T17:29:08Z")
Economically, the only thing that justifies stimulus spending is the existence of a ‘multiplier’ - the notion that you’ll get back 1.5 dollars in GDP growth for every dollar you spend. A positive multiplier is necessary for the stimulus money to be able to be paid back, and not to be a net drag on the economy. A multiplier only happens if the stimulus is targeted at idle resources. If you aim the stimulus money at an industry which has very low unemployment, you’ll make the problem worse, not better. Because all the unemployed are still unemployed, but the addition cash injection into the industry with high employment can easily cause inflation of salaries and products of that industry. This makes the lives of the unemployed even harder, hurts the economy, and wastes the stimulus money. If 80% of the job losses were men, and 54% of the stimulus money is going to jobs with high female employment, that’s a problem for the multiplier. All arguments about feminism aside, it’s another sign that the stimulus is not as effective as promised. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-lobby-to-keep-stimulus-jobs-away-from-men/500977.md?page=2)