# Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149 "2016-07-05T18:38:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/241 "2016-07-11T03:20:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So rather than addressing her actual comments wrt his patronizing behaviour, or in fact modifying said behaviour one iota, he decided to pitch a fit over the vernacular to make it look like she was the wronging party and he the wronged, and keeps interrupting her and shouting her down in the process. > > Have I got this right ? Yeah, that’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/242 "2016-07-11T06:20:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So rather than addressing her actual comments wrt his patronizing behaviour, or in fact modifying said behaviour one iota, he decided to pitch a fit over the vernacular to make it look like she was the wronging party and he the wronged, and keeps interrupting her and shouting her down in the process. > > Have I got this right ? He did address her actual comments. If she wanted to avoid HIS obvious avoiding of the content of her questioning she should never have used such an obviously offensive expression. “Mansplaining” is a useful and interesting term in colloquial conversation but has no place in parliamentary discourse and her use of it derailed her efforts to her own detriment. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/243 "2016-07-11T06:37:51Z")
Err, no he did not ? He didn’t even bother denying that he’d been condescending, and kept right on being condescending throughout the exchange. That’s not addressing her comments. That’s ignoring her comments. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/244 "2016-07-11T10:02:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Err, no he did not ? He didn’t even bother denying that he’d been condescending, and kept right on being condescending throughout the exchange. That’s not addressing her comments. That’s ignoring her comments. She should have simply said that he wasn’t answering the questions. By using the sexist term she gave him the opportunity to focus on that, in stead of the questions. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/245 "2016-07-11T15:15:39Z")
He’s a grown-up, isn’t he? He has every opportunity to focus on whatever he wants. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/246 "2016-07-11T19:02:06Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Its bigger than being merely white. > > My husband has it - Mayflower decedent, white man, grandfather a West Point grad. He has two Presidents, a Confederate General and a WWII General in his family tree. > > My dad doesn’t - despite filling out census forms as a white male. None of his grandparents spoke English. He is not “white enough” - he has the dark olive skin of his Roma mother. His last name is Italian - and he is old enough where these things matters. > > I don’t - I’m white - I have the “vampire chic” skin tone of my German mother, I’m young enough that my Italian last name is just a name. But I come with breasts. And we haven’t get gotten rid of that being worth a demerit. > > But I get far more of a headstart than a black man, or a black woman. I’m straight, and culturally Christian. I’m still way privileged, I just don’t get to sit on the top rung of the privilege ladder. I think it’s more accurate to say that you get more of a head start than some black men and women. To use an extreme example, I doubt that you sit above or anywhere close to Obama’s kids on the privilege ladder. Most white males aren’t going to have a problem acknowledging that being white and male is a privilege. The problem is that, for the most part, that’s where the discussion starts and ends. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/247 "2016-07-12T04:28:45Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > She should have simply said that he wasn’t answering the questions. By using the sexist term she gave him the opportunity to focus on that, in stead of the questions. Right. It’s really her fault he keeps being an ass. She’s the one making him do it ! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/248 "2016-07-12T06:03:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Right. It’s really her fault he keeps being an ass. She’s the one making him do it ! :rolleyes: Don’t be silly. I’m just saying that a better way to address his evasions would have been to keep it professional. Getting all smarmy herself simply wasn’t good tactics. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/249 "2016-07-15T18:03:24Z")
I’m back. Look, I can’t keep up with all the responses. It’s too much. Sorry if you asked an honest question and I didn’t respond. If you made a stupid, dishonest, personal or otherwise irrelevant point, though, consider it ignored. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/250 "2016-07-15T18:09:14Z")
> [@Barrett\_Bonden](#): > > IMO, when the term “mansplaining” was first coined, it was a useful and somewhat biting description for a gendered phenomenon that deserved a gendered description. It has occurred and continues to occur that _ **some** _ men consider themselves to be more of an authority on a given topic than a woman because “men naturally know more than women.” Then maybe call it “somemensplaining.” A term that used “women” such as “womensplaining” would be rightly objected to by women for being sexist too. > [@](#): > > because the irrational assumption of superior knowledge was influenced by the gender of the speaker and the gender of the listener. See, that’s the most awful, sexist part of this. It insults men – all men – by attributing a personality trait to their gender. Pretty classic sexism. > [@](#): > > That said, now it’s just being used as an equivalent for “men explaining condescendingly to women,” which is not the same thing. So, if you think it’s overused and no longer a useful term, I agree. Yes, that’s part of my frustration with it. I frequently see it used (like many other terms) when it doesn’t even apply. Any man explaining something to any woman can become “mansplaining” even if the man knows the woman doesn’t know something or if he would treat a fellow man the same way. Which is one of the dangers of going around making up sexist terms in the first place. You created that monster, and now it’s not “useful” yet it’s everywhere. > [@](#): > > Now, because I can’t resist, you realize that you are complaining because nine times out of ten you are interrupted by a woman in a group in which eighty percent of the potential interrupters are women? What are the odds? 😃 #notxpercentofwomen 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/251 "2016-07-15T18:12:04Z")
> [@andros](#): > > It has nothing to do with guilt. You _benefit_, in your new homeland, from “the misdeeds of the previous centuries.” By virtue of being white you have an inherent _advantage_ thanks to those centuries. Sure, but why do you bring that up? What is the purpose of noting someone’s privilege? What do you think they should do with that information? That’s the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/252 "2016-07-16T20:08:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Then maybe call it “somemensplaining.” > > A term that used “women” such as “womensplaining” would be rightly objected to by women for being sexist too. Similarly offensive: Men’s Health, the Women’s Sportswear section of Target, and the Boy Scouts. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/253 "2016-07-17T17:15:38Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > See, that’s the most awful, sexist part of this. It insults men – all men – by attributing a personality trait to their gender. Pretty classic sexism. I’m a man, and I’m not remotely offered by “mansplaining.” Neither of the vast majority of men I know. The only people I’ve ever met who were offended by it were men who found the concept of feminism as a whole offensive on some level. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/254 "2016-07-17T17:51:13Z")
I’m not personally offended by it, but I think its a stupid word and that’s some feminist would dislike it if it were ‘womensplaining’ and it was in the dictionary. Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/255 "2016-07-17T18:32:39Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’m not personally offended by it, but I think its a stupid word and that’s some feminist would dislike it if it were ‘womensplaining’ and it was in the dictionary. > > Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk Ugh. I’m sorry. I don’t post as much as I use to on these boards, and I seriously think it’s effected my ability to express myself coherently. Sorry for the lack of polish. Anyway. People here know what I’m saying here I think. “Manspreading” is a stupid word too. If a woman sits like that, (which they don’t commonly do, but it IS physically possible), isn’t it still an inconvenience? What if we made a new word called “Womanbagging” when women put their purses or shopping bags down next to them taking up butt real-estate. I mean, men are, (of course) guilty of the same or similar things… why assign a gender to it. Just don’t be a jerk on the bus. But you know what… these petty things don’t bother me anymore. It’s so silly. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/256 "2016-07-17T21:00:23Z")
Male, came up through the “worst” period of feminism (1970s), had “sexist” pointed my way because it was true, reconsidered especially after having three daughters and seeing how they could be screwed by society. There’s nothing like daughters to make one a feminist. May I assume the OP has none? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/257 "2016-07-17T22:53:13Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Male, came up through the “worst” period of feminism (1970s), had “sexist” pointed my way because it was true, reconsidered especially after having three daughters and seeing how they could be screwed by society. There’s nothing like daughters to make one a feminist. May I assume the OP has none? I’ve heard the opposite as well, that there’s nothing like sons to make a feminist realize that boys and men have their own challenges that women don’t experience. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/258 "2016-07-17T23:29:02Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve heard the opposite as well, that there’s nothing like sons to make a feminist realize that boys and men have their own challenges that women don’t experience. I am of the opinion that feminists ought to have sons and MRAs ought to have daughters. Many people suddenly reconsider their gender-political views once it’s their son or daughter that has to deal with misandry or misogyny that the feminist or MRA might have previously dismissed with a hand wave. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/259 "2016-07-18T00:00:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I am of the opinion that feminists ought to have sons and MRAs ought to have daughters. Many people suddenly reconsider their gender-political views once it’s their son or daughter that has to deal with misandry or misogyny that the feminist or MRA might have previously dismissed with a hand wave. The two are not even close to equivalent, any more than civil rights advocates and white supremacists are equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149/260 "2016-07-18T16:07:08Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sure, but why do you bring that up? What is the purpose of noting someone’s privilege? What do you think they should do with that information? That’s the issue. Exactly. I’m not at all offended by the notion of whatever privilege I may have- I understand the idea that I may have certain advantages due to my ethnicity, upbringing, gender, etc… But I bristle when that’s used as a club to basically designate me or my accomplishments as “unearned”, or to imply that me or my opinions are somehow less worthy as a result. One is a more or less academic discussion subject, while the other is much more in the nature of a personal attack, or at the very least, something to use to disregard someone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feminists-treat-men-badly-it-s-bad-for-feminism/759149.md?page=14)