# Fence & Property Line Etiquette/Legal Opinions Wanted **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 25, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620 "2017-08-25T02:19:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cripsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cripsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cripsy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/21 "2017-08-25T18:53:09Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Crispy - I sympathize with you, but I agree that you don’t come off sounding perfect. You could have done any number of different things. Adverse possession/easement is essentially BS - all you needed to do is give your neighbor permission, and he would never have gotten title. He could have gone right up to your fence, and you could have asked him to maintain the property and/or let you access to do what you want. The standard practice is to cantilever a partial section, so there is no additional post on your property. Or you could have allowed him to join up to your post. > > If you’d done that, you wouldn’t have had to worry about him squeezing in. > > You sound a little anal about what you expect from this couple of feet of rocks outside of your fence. You’ve got the rocks out there. Is it too difficult to be more circumspect about spraying poison? Ot less demanding about how weedfree some rocks outside of your privacy fence remain? > > Wireless cameras are quite reasonable (~$35). Tell your neighbor (via letter) that you don’t want him on your rocks or touching your fence. And involve the local government, saying your sole concern is that your neighbor stay off of and not damage your property. That is language they will be familiar and sympathetic with. > > You say you could maintain his property, but for whatever reason, you don’t want to. Your choice. Is that making you happy? > > All in all, it seems like you are pretty vested in making this a pretty significant element of your daily existence - being the fence-Nazi. That’s not the way I would choose to exist. > > The amount of detail you provided suggests you are much more invested in this than simply this one property issue. I suggest you acknowledge that, and try to identify some solution to ease your mind overall. Or, you can continue as is and keep getting pissed over pretty minor BS. Your choice. My attitude towards it, is that since he built his fence after mine, he should have taken that into consideration and brought his side in more or put concrete or something down to prevent stuff from growing on his strip. I did not mind spraying the weed/grass killer, and they had agreed to it, but once mid summer hit, they started having issues with it because they wanted to place the blame of their fence, dogs, etc killing areas near the fence onto my spraying grass/weed killer exactly how we agreed. When they complained about it, I told them I only did what we agreed to and they actually agreed with me (said that they saw me do it the way we agreed to, but still had a problem with it…that I should knock on their door first and get permission each time before I sprayed from then on…which I would not agree to…and told them they need to spray it or cut it themselves from then on). They half cut it once a month or 6 weeks…so I was out there cutting it each week for a while until they had issues with that. So, I don’t want liability of damaging their fence and I since I know that even if we agreed that I could cut their 4 inch strip, they would still come over and complain about it or when they have a bad day use it as an excuse to take their anger out on me like they have previously. So, that is the reason(s) I don’t want to cut their stuff…and that is pretty good reasons…and yes it makes me happy not to have spend any of my resources maintaining their land do nothing but trash mine and randomly verbally harass/assault us. Oh, I don’t worry about getting so pissed about their BS anymore. I just record any conversations they initiate and write down what happens. I will put cameras up and if I have any damages or future issues, I will take it to court or the police. I am the type that spend $500 in court fees over something worth less just because of the principle of the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Cripsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cripsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cripsy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/22 "2017-08-25T19:02:45Z")
Okay, trolls are coming out now. I guess I will no longer ever post anything on a public message board since most people cannot understand the English language well enough. Yes, I understand this was an IMHO because I was not sure if it should be in General. The gist of the matter is that neighbor takes issue with me maintaining his 4 inches of space…even though he has agreed to things, he eventually complains about it. Yes, even stepping one foot on someone else’s property is trespassing…and so is leaning against their fence. At least that is how it is in my area. I will not give any use of my property to anyone…and an issue for the neighbor created by the same neighbor is that person’s responsibility to remedy. All of the posts that I have read previously on SD were through google searches and were filled with good posters giving insight and if they did not understand what the OP said, they asked questions for clarification. I realize I gave a long explanation, but it was to give you enough information to understand everything possible. I even gave additional information in my responses just in case. I am unfollowing this thread and deleting my account since I now realize SD has mostly gone the way of America. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/23 "2017-08-25T19:23:09Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Jurisdictions vary. Some require/allow placement right on the line. > > I am only familiar w/ having put up several fences in the Chicago area. My discussions w/ installers indicates that 4-6" inside the line is because ALL MATERIALS have to be on the installer’s property. The concrete-filled posthole extends at least a few inches beyond the post. You are not allowed to install concrete over the property line. That makes sense. I can see 4-6" but it looks like the OP has his fence a few FEET from the property line. I can’t see the reason for that. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/24 "2017-08-25T19:26:46Z")
Well, looks like you just joined, so your leaving will be no great loss. If you had truly checked around, you would have seen that folk around here do not simply line up in support of the original poster. Sorry it bothers you to have folk observe that some aspects of your past and current behavior is less than optimal. I didn’t see anything in the responses that impressed me as particularly trollish. Enjoy your life. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/25 "2017-08-25T19:29:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That makes sense. I can see 4-6" but it looks like the OP has his fence a few FEET from the property line. I can’t see the reason for that. Yeah - that struck me as odd. He gave his reasons - apparently thinking it allowed him to maintain scorched earth outside his fence up to the property line. But by doing so, and then not allowing his neighbor to butt up to his fence, and by keeping a laundry list of real and perceived greivances large and small, he played a big role in creating the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/26 "2017-08-25T19:30:35Z")
Yeah, the reasons just seemed to make his life harder. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/27 "2017-08-25T19:35:41Z")
> [@Cripsy](#): > > Okay, trolls are coming out now. I guess I will no longer ever post anything on a public message board since most people cannot understand the English language well enough. Yes, I understand this was an IMHO because I was not sure if it should be in General. I realize you have stated you don’t intend to return to the board, but I hope you’ll change your mind and realize that a lot of people find useful advice here even if and when their positions are criticized. Said criticism and disagreement is often—though not always—unrelated to language difficulties. Meanwhile, in case you do return, be aware that accusations of trolling against other posters aren’t allowed outside of the forum known as The Pit, so please don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/28 "2017-08-25T19:40:42Z")
On my other side, when we put in a fence, the neighbor had an ash tree pretty much on the line. We talked with them, and with their agreement put the fence where it is to best join up with the other existing fences, and to keep the tree on their property. I honestly can’t recall if it was a foot or 2 on our side or their side, but I know it is not on the line. Since then, the tree died and has been cut down. I honestly don’t remember if the fence is on our side or theirs. Right now, neither of us has any inclination to move. Should they move eventually and the new owners’ survey says something, we’ll either ask them if they are OK with the fence as it is, or we’ll pay to have it moved closed to the line. (Heck, I know I have the paperwork at home, and I think there is a pipe in the corner. But with good relations such as we have with those neighbors, a foot or 2 either was is inconsequential.) There’s only so much you can do in installing a fence, but you should make your choices concerning the worst possible case, should relations w/ current neighbors sour, or new folk move in. Like I said, our fence is entirely permitted. The neighbor COULD install their own fence, creating a foot of so wide no-man’s land, which would be impossible to maintain. Sure, it might be best to put down fabric and/or stones or something, but we cannot require it. So we might end up with a weedy foot between the fences. If that occurs, our options would be to ignore it, or take our fence down and maintain the yard up to their fence. Neither option is perfect, but you can’t expect perfection living in reasonably urban environments. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/29 "2017-08-25T19:41:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That makes sense. I can see 4-6" but it looks like the OP has his fence a few FEET from the property line. I can’t see the reason for that. In my city ordinances, it says you must be 3’ inside your property lines on all sides unless you come to an agreement with your neighbor and have it signed by the building dept. I’m guessing so that when you do maintenance on the outside of your fence, you have 3’ in which to work and not disturb your neighbor. My fence is 3’ inside my line at the back and on one side. But since I’m cool I went to my other neighbor and worked out the deal for connecting to his fence. He signed the thing I wrote and it was all breezy. When his fence became inadequate to hold my new dog, I ponied up to replace his little fence (our shared fence) with a much taller fence and he was happy and I was happy. My fence guys rolled up his old fence for him to scrap, even, so he came out $75 ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/30 "2017-08-25T19:45:14Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > In my city ordinances, it says you must be 3’ inside your property lines on all sides unless you come to an agreement with your neighbor and have it signed by the building dept. > > I’m guessing so that when you do maintenance on the outside of your fence, you have 3’ in which to work and not disturb your neighbor. > > My fence is 3’ inside my line at the back and on one side. But since I’m cool I went to my other neighbor and worked out the deal for connecting to his fence. He signed the thing I wrote and it was all breezy. When his fence became inadequate to hold my new dog, I ponied up to replace his little fence (our shared fence) with a much taller fence and he was happy and I was happy. My fence guys rolled up his old fence for him to scrap, even, so he came out $75 ahead. That’s cool. Requirements of the city I can understand. Doubly cool since you worked it out with your neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/31 "2017-08-25T20:09:39Z")
Just checked my city code (bored at work! ;)) It says in residential areas fence may be constructed “adjacent to the property line” with the decorative side facing out. Other than that, it talks about maximum height in various locations (behind front of house, within certain distance of street, etc.) What I understood about 4-6" inside, was from discussions w/ various code enforcement folk and fence installers in 3 different communities. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/32 "2017-08-25T23:26:43Z")
> [@Cripsy](#): > > … and to make sure none of the neighbors could try and claim it in anyway. > > … > > I told them now, that I specifically put the fence back and put border there to protect my property and interests. > > … > > They got permission from the other neighbors to use their fences, but I still would not give them my permission. > > … > > Since they would not maintain my side of their chain link fence, which is their yard, I reported them to the city code enforcement. Code came out and made them weed whack it. But because the neighbor would not keep it cut, I have had to report them a few more times. When I saw them have a pink slip from code on their door I assumed it was from their failure to weed whack still and I went ahead and put a no trespassing sign on my yard at my fence that would have to be stepped over if they attempted to trespass down my property to weed whack. I did this because I don’t want them on my property because I don’t like them for how they are (even though they keep claiming to be nice people and such), I don’t want liability, I don’t want them damaging my property (mainly my fence) since they can’t fit through there well anyway, and I don’t want them ever being able to claim any sort of adverse possession or easement rights against me. > > … > > I am pretty curious of how many think that I should just risk him damaging my fence by leaning against it over time and be prepared to take a loss of $2,000 > [@Cripsy](#): > > I don’t have to worry about adverse possession of my fence thankfully for putting it into my yard as I did. Which means neighbors can’t hook anything to it, lean stuff against it, etc. I was definitely not going to pay money for a fence for my neighbors to enjoy for free… > [@Cripsy](#): > > … since we will not give up any of our property to anyone. > > … stepping into our yard to work on theirs … > [@Cripsy](#): > > … I am the type that spend $500 in court fees over something worth less just because of the principle of the matter. > [@Cripsy](#): > > … Yes, even stepping one foot on someone else’s property is trespassing…and so is leaning against their fence. At least that is how it is in my area. > > I will not give any use of my property to anyone…and an issue for the neighbor created by the same neighbor is that person’s responsibility to remedy. All this is what I was talking about when I mentioned obsessive behavior. Jeez. Just let your neighbors temporarily put a foot on your property sometimes. It’s not a big deal. It’s not going to cost you your property rights. This whole situation wouldn’t have happened if you hadn’t been so adamant about the idea that no one can ever step on your property. > [@](#): > > I am unfollowing this thread and deleting my account since I now realize SD has mostly gone the way of America. What does this even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/33 "2017-08-26T05:36:09Z")
In my opinion…you are crotchety old man who was played by your own game and now you’re trying to drum up support that you don’t deserve. Get over yourself…i bet anyone you’re an ex-marine…they are also the worst neighbors…i know wherefore I speak because my dad and uncles were are in the Corps…in their 80s now and still terrorizing the neighborhoods…bar none!! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/34 "2017-08-26T06:24:31Z")
Forget it – he’s too busy yelling at kids to get off his lawn. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/35 "2017-08-26T19:03:44Z")
I totally agree ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/36 "2017-08-26T23:54:20Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > In my opinion…you are crotchety old man who was played by your own game and now you’re trying to drum up support that you don’t deserve. Get over yourself…i bet anyone you’re an ex-marine…they are also the worst neighbors…i know wherefore I speak because my dad and uncles were are in the Corps…in their 80s now and still terrorizing the neighborhoods…bar none!! It is against the rules to personally insult other posters outside of the Pit. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/37 "2017-08-27T00:02:48Z")
I find all of this fascinating. With the exception of living on acreage in a rural county, every house I or any of my friends ever lived in had a fenced yard where the fence was built on the property line with shared responsibility for maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/38 "2017-08-27T00:25:52Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > I find all of this fascinating. With the exception of living on acreage in a rural county, every house I or any of my friends ever lived in had a fenced yard where the fence was built on the property line with shared responsibility for maintenance. Same here. This idea of setting a fence back so a neighbor can’t lay a finger on it seems to make unreasonable hostility the basis of the relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620/39 "2017-08-28T02:23:07Z")
I am sorry…i didn’t realize I was being insulting to the OP…i was just making a observation…i was rude…sorry OP [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fence-property-line-etiquette-legal-opinions-wanted/794620.md?page=1)