# Fencing Terms in Princess Bride: Real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792 "2007-10-24T04:50:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RBerns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/958977/32.png) [@RBerns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RBerns)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/1 "2007-10-24T04:50:53Z")
In the swordfight in The Princess Bride, Indigo and Wesley humorously talk about fencing the way that chess players might describe chess openings. Are the phrases that they use (“Beneti’s Defense”, etc) real? Does fencing even have precise names for various strategies in this manner? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/2 "2007-10-24T05:24:25Z")
> [@](#): > > INIGO: You are using Bonetti’s defense against me, eh? > > MAN IN BLACK: I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain. > > INIGO: Naturally, you must expect me to attack with Capo Ferro. > > MAN IN BLACK: Naturally. But I find that Thibault cancels Capo Ferro, don’t you? > > INIGO: Unless the enemy has studied his Agrippa… which I have! I saw a Ren Faire fencing demonstration in which two performers recreated the choreography from the movie while explaining the references. As I remember, the names refer not so much to techniques, but to various masters… and a quick search revealed the following commentary: > [@](#): > > Rocco Bonetti opened the first School of Rapier Fence, or Colledge, at Blackfriars in London in 1576. He prefered to deflect jabs and wait for mistakes to be made rather than rush into attack. Ridolfo Capo Ferro taught a linear style of Fence, saying “The cut has little place in rapier play”. He published his work Gran Simulacro dell’ Arte e dell’ uso della Scherma in 1610. Girard Thibault taught the Spanish Style of Fence in which parrying maneuvers ruined jabbing attacks. He published his book Academie de l’Espee in 1630. Camillo Agrippa was regarded as the man who defined the rapier as a thrusting weapon as well as one to be used for cutting. He published his book Trattato di Scienza d’Arme in 1568. From [http://www.angelfire.com/un/maqa/answers.html](http://www.angelfire.com/un/maqa/answers.html) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/3 "2007-10-24T05:34:01Z")
These are all in the book too, which William Goldman was very careful to get right. And when the movie was made, they made sure that they were what was demonstrated in the choreography. Most of that info is in the commentaries (both Goldman’s and Rob Reiner’s) on the DVD. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/4 "2007-10-24T13:15:02Z")
From the IMDB trivia page for Princess Bride: > [@](#): > > The fencing masters that Inigo and Westley talk about studying are all real fencing masters from the 14th to 16th centuries (although the styles of fighting they are using have little to do with what those masters actually taught). ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/5 "2007-10-24T13:41:14Z")
When I fenced for a couple of years, I never heard anyone mention a specific technique or tactic as identifiable to a specific individual (a la the Bonetti defense). Such terminology reminds me far more of chess. Of course, I was doing modern fencing on a strip, rather than bounding off boulders and such. In modern fencing, things are broken down more to individual moves, or small groups of moves. The goal is to score a point (touch), after which things are reset. So there aren’t elaborate longterm strategies and approaches. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/6 "2007-10-24T14:01:12Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] When I fenced for a couple of years, I never heard anyone mention a specific technique or tactic as identifiable to a specific individual (a la the Bonetti defense). Such terminology reminds me far more of chess. Of course, I was doing modern fencing on a strip, rather than bounding off boulders and such. In modern fencing, things are broken down more to individual moves, or small groups of moves. The goal is to score a point (touch), after which things are reset. So there aren’t elaborate longterm strategies and approaches. [/QUOTE] That would be the difference of fighting for points vs life itself. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/7 "2007-10-24T14:20:02Z")
[QUOTE=simster] That would be the difference of fighting for points vs life itself. [/QUOTE] I thought continuing to live **was** the point! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/8 "2007-10-24T14:36:51Z")
While I don’t fight with rapiers I have a copy of both the Capo Ferro and Agrippa treatises. If I knew Italian I could read them also. Sadly all I can do is look at the pictures. I would like to lay them out to print and bind so I can keep them with the translated versions of the earlier German Fechtbuchs that I do use. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/9 "2007-10-24T15:07:41Z")
[QUOTE=simster] That would be the difference of fighting for points vs life itself. [/QUOTE] Sir Richard Francis Burton (Victorian adventurer, explorer and translator of the Karma Sutra) apparently disliked the risk-averse approach to fencing in the late 19th century. During one bout (which would have been to first blood, rather than a lethal blow) he refused to wear a fencing mask, and still comprehensively beat his opponent. And when I fenced in the late 80’s, our coach was an elderly man who had observed duels to first blood, and who had been coached by fencers who had fought lethal duels. Our coach wanted us to realise the seriousness of what we (as a bunch of uni students) just considered to be a fun sport. And people can die in modern fencing. An epee is a stiff, strong weapon, and if the tip breaks off, will punch through a fencing mask, and the face behind it. In fact, that happened during an Olympic competition (possibly 1984). An aggressive fencer will always be trying for the second hit. A german fencer hit his opponent in the chest, then flicked the blade up and drove on the mask. Sadly, the tip had broken during the first hit, and the russian had the blade driven through the mask and his eye - he subsequently died. If I ever lose enough weight to take up fencing again, I’d go for historical rapier fighting rather than modern fencing - just for the fun of it. Si ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/10 "2007-10-24T15:32:38Z")
[QUOTE=si\_blakely] And people can die in modern fencing. An epee is a stiff, strong weapon, and if the tip breaks off, will punch through a fencing mask, and the face behind it. [/QUOTE] I studied fencing in college. This was in a stage combat class, but the instructor wanted us to understand “real” fencing, with foils, masks, suits, the whole works, on a track, with judges and points, so we had a basis for adapting the safer stage techniques. In one match, my opponent feinted, slipped under my parry, and brought the point up at me; the tip glanced off my upper chest and went underneath the leading edge of my mask, jabbing directly into my neck off to one side at the base of my throat. The foil was tipped, and it didn’t break the skin, but it left a nasty, nasty bruise. The instructor said he’d never seen anything like that happen before. He’d seen masks punctured, but never a tip actually enter under the collar and strike skin. For the record, it hurt. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/11 "2007-10-24T16:13:29Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] I thought continuing to live **was** the point! 😃 [/QUOTE] Only if you are fighting _to the death_, instead of _to the pain_. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/12 "2007-10-24T16:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Only if you are fighting _to the death_, instead of _to the pain_. [/QUOTE] I’m not quite familiar with that… ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/13 "2007-10-24T16:47:25Z")
[QUOTE=simster] I’m not quite familiar with that… [/QUOTE] It’s later in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/14 "2007-10-24T17:00:30Z")
[QUOTE=Genghis Bob] It’s later in the movie. [/QUOTE] Whoosh! ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/15 "2007-10-24T17:00:50Z")
[QUOTE=Genghis Bob] It’s later in the movie. [/QUOTE] I think you need to explain and use small words so that he’ll be sure to understand … and don’t forget to call him a warthog-faced buffoon. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/16 "2007-10-24T17:05:58Z")
[QUOTE=Genghis Bob] It’s later in the movie. [/QUOTE] I do not think it means what you think it means. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/17 "2007-10-24T17:09:54Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] I do not think it means what you think it means. 😉 [/QUOTE] INCONCEIVABLE! ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/18 "2007-10-24T18:30:24Z")
[QUOTE=Genghis Bob] It’s later in the movie. [/QUOTE] **simster** got you there- that’s Humperdinck’s next line. EDIT: And wow, do I ever need to use preview. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/19 "2007-10-24T18:39:11Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Whoosh! [/QUOTE] Damn! :smack: In my own defense . . . nah, I got nothin’. I’m old. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/20 "2007-10-24T19:00:49Z")
[QUOTE=Genghis Bob] Damn! :smack: In my own defense . . . nah, I got nothin’. I’m old. [/QUOTE] Perhap’s you should consider retiring, you could train your replacement, and he could take your name… you see, its the name that’s important, no one would ever consider surrendering to “Ghengis Wesley” (or “Ghengis Khan” for that matter), it’s the name that inspires the neccesary fear… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792.md?page=2)