# Fencing Terms in Princess Bride: Real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792 "2007-10-24T04:50:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/21 "2007-10-24T19:58:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by si\_blakely > And people can die in modern fencing. An epee is a stiff, strong weapon, and if the tip breaks off, will punch through a fencing mask, and the face behind it. > > I studied fencing in college. This was in a stage combat class, but the instructor wanted us to understand “real” fencing, with foils, masks, suits, the whole works, on a track, with judges and points, so we had a basis for adapting the safer stage techniques. In one match, my opponent feinted, slipped under my parry, and brought the point up at me; the tip glanced off my upper chest and went underneath the leading edge of my mask, jabbing directly into my neck off to one side at the base of my throat. The foil was tipped, and it didn’t break the skin, but it left a nasty, nasty bruise. The instructor said he’d never seen anything like that happen before. He’d seen masks punctured, but never a tip actually enter under the collar and strike skin. For the record, it hurt. A lot. I managed to do this to my opponent in college. So either it has happened twice as often as you thought, or else I fenced against you. (Wrere you at MIT in the 197os?) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/22 "2007-10-24T20:25:50Z")
[QUOTE=simster] Perhap’s you should consider retiring, you could train your replacement, and he could take your name… you see, its the name that’s important, no one would ever consider surrendering to “Ghengis Wesley” (or “Ghengis Khan” for that matter), it’s the name that inspires the neccesary fear… [/QUOTE] Oh, don’t bother. He does good work, but I’ll most likely kill him in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/23 "2007-10-24T21:10:58Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] When I fenced for a couple of years, I never heard anyone mention a specific technique or tactic as identifiable to a specific individual (a la the Bonetti defense). [/QUOTE] Not so much a technique or tactic as a holistic philosophy of fighting - fencing treatises were as much about selling each guy’s school and lucrative lessons as about actually teaching moves. So they all developed different theories - circles, measures, timing and emphasised different aspects of the art. I haven’t rapier-fenced for a while now, but I still can tell sorta the difference between the Italian and Spanish schools, and the mixed stuff that a lot of the later guys came up with. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/24 "2007-10-24T21:27:54Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] (Wrere you at MIT in the 197os?) [/QUOTE] Nope. Pacific Northwest, early 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Neur0mancer\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/46a35a/32.png) [@Neur0mancer\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neur0mancer_1)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/25 "2007-10-25T01:37:50Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I managed to do this to my opponent in college. So either it has happened twice as often as you thought, or else I fenced against you. (Wrere you at MIT in the 197os?) [/QUOTE] The main weapon where people used to get really hurt was saber, partially because the head is a target in saber and saber fencing involves more large motions than epee and foil. The injuries (and there were even a couple of fatalities in competitions) stopped when the USFA introduced mask regulations that were pretty strict. I think the mask now has to pass a 12 kg punch test. On another topic mentioned in the thread, in fencing in order to simulate the psychology of fighting with live steel for keeps, foil and saber have rules about “right of way”. Basically, (in foil) if someone has established a credible threat with their point, you can’t just dive on it and try to hit them at the same time. If you do that, and you both hit, you lose. You both died, but you’re the one who did the stupid thing. Before you can counterattack, you have to deflect the threat (there are various fine points about timing, riposts, stop thrusts, etc.). This is why a fencing match has a “director” - the electronics keep track of who hit whom, and the director watches the right of way flow back and forth. It’s pretty hard to do, and requires a very trained eye. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2007, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792/26 "2007-10-25T07:18:04Z")
[QUOTE=Neur0mancer.] The main weapon where people used to get really hurt was saber, partially because the head is a target in saber and saber fencing involves more large motions than epee and foil. The injuries (and there were even a couple of fatalities in competitions) stopped when the USFA introduced mask regulations that were pretty strict. I think the mask now has to pass a 12 kg punch test. [/QUOTE] I never fenced sabre, but my theory was you were more likely to get hurt in a sabre fight because it mostly involved two guys running at each other full tilt waving long bits of metal. Gross impact injuries were the order of the day, including mask to mask contact. However, I guess high attacks at speed could result in Mask punctures. [QUOTE=Neur0mancer.] On another topic mentioned in the thread, in fencing in order to simulate the psychology of fighting with live steel for keeps, foil and saber have rules about “right of way”. Basically, (in foil) if someone has established a credible threat with their point, you can’t just dive on it and try to hit them at the same time. If you do that, and you both hit, you lose. You both died, but you’re the one who did the stupid thing. Before you can counterattack, you have to deflect the threat (there are various fine points about timing, riposts, stop thrusts, etc.). This is why a fencing match has a “director” - the electronics keep track of who hit whom, and the director watches the right of way flow back and forth. It’s pretty hard to do, and requires a very trained eye. [/QUOTE] And the above rules are why I fenced epee - which replicates fencing to first blood. You can hit your opponent anywhere (sabre and foil have restricted upper body targets) and it is the first clear hit that gets the point - simultaneous hits don’t count. Oh, and an epee has enough stiffness to hurt, so care is required - getting an epee hit to the knee or toe will teach you to not expose the front leg too much during a lunge. It seems a bit more tactical rather than rulebound. Si [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fencing-terms-in-princess-bride-real/423792.md?page=1)