# Ferguson Effect **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866 "2016-10-07T16:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/41 "2016-10-15T13:53:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > FWIW, I personally don’t think 1,200 people being killed by police each year is necessarily a problem. Some people need killing, and the world is better off without them. Depends on the facts of each case. But should the standard be that anybody who gets shot by the police must have deserved to get shot by the police? And the police get to make the decision? I think the answer is no. Police shootings should be subject to an authority other than the police themselves. And not in a mere theoretical sense. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/42 "2016-10-16T00:12:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But should the standard be that anybody who gets shot by the police must have deserved to get shot by the police? And the police get to make the decision? > > I think the answer is no. Of course the answer is no. But that’s not the question here. Your point was about whether the 1200 people being shot by police was a bigger problem than officers being beaten because they’re afraid to use their weapons. And my response was that in making that assessment, you can’t just point to the fact that there were 1,200 people, since many of those people deserved killing and their death is not a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/43 "2016-10-16T03:07:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I don’t think so. It sucks to be investigated and considered for prosecution, much less prosecuted. It sucks to have your name put in the media for something you may not have done. But you know what every single cop tells every single innocent person whose ever been charged or had their name dragged through the mud: tough shit. That’s how the system works, and there’s no alternative. At least cops aren’t being singled out for investigation because of their race. > > I agree. It’s the 90% figure that’s wildly off. If you’re a cop who shoots someone, you have about a 1/1000 chance of having your life and career messed up, and even lower if you did everything right. Where do you get the 1::1000 chance? I agree that cops ought to be investigated. I thought they were and then if the investigation turns up anything, the matter is referred over to the DA. Or did you have something else in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/44 "2016-10-16T15:50:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Of course the answer is no. But that’s not the question here. > > Your point was about whether the 1200 people being shot by police was a bigger problem than officers being beaten because they’re afraid to use their weapons. And my response was that in making that assessment, you can’t just point to the fact that there were 1,200 people, since many of those people deserved killing and their death is not a problem. My point stands. Unless you have other examples to introduce, it’s not officers being beaten. It’s one officer being beaten. Now I’ll readily concede that some of the 1200 people who were killed by the police (and remember that’s an annual rate; the actual ongoing total is higher) needed to be shot. But how many? Let’s go extreme and say it was 1199. That means one person was unnecessarily killed by the police. So which is a bigger problem? A person getting beaten up or a person getting killed? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/45 "2016-10-16T19:01:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [url=[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/10/07/ferguson-effect-savagely-beaten-cop-didnt-draw-gun-for-fear-of-media-uproar-says-chicago-police-chief/?wpisrc=nl\_most-draw7&wpmm=1](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/10/07/ferguson-effect-savagely-beaten-cop-didnt-draw-gun-for-fear-of-media-uproar-says-chicago-police-chief/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw7&wpmm=1)]‘Ferguson effect’? I’ll believe it when it happens over and over, to many different cops, over a period of years, with nothing done about it. ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/46 "2016-10-17T01:29:17Z")
I do believe police are scared of backlash from the hate group ( Black Lives Matter) In Minnesota , a black young man was shot while handcuffed…or so Black Lives Matter claimed. A complete investigation was done and the Hennepin County Attorney presented all the…EVIDENCE #1…not a slightest mark on the wrists of the dead black man that would be present if handcuffed. #2…the dead man’s fingerprints on the police officer’s gun. The EVIDENCE coincided with the police version of the black man getting shot after he got the policeman down and was trying to get the officer’s gun. The second policeman shot him after the downed officer cried out for help. Yet, despite the evidence presented, the statement from a female member of the hate group ( Black Lives Matter) to the County Attorney was…" if the city burns down, it’s on you ! " Yes, I did watch the entire press conference and it was quite apparent the hate group ( Black Lives Matter) wan cops prosecuted even if the EVIDENCE doesn’t warrant prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/47 "2016-10-17T01:53:21Z")
Oh, you’re one of those people. Ok then ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/48 "2016-10-17T02:07:35Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Oh, you’re one of those people. Ok then and what kind of a person are you ? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/49 "2016-10-17T11:07:43Z")
Interestingly, and unlike many cases involving violent altercations and the police, _nobody died_. Might be worth considering. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/50 "2016-10-17T13:29:53Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > IYet, despite the evidence presented, the statement from a female member of the hate group ( Black Lives Matter) to the County Attorney was…" if the city burns down, it’s on you ! " > > Yes, I did watch the entire press conference and it was quite apparent the hate group ( Black Lives Matter) wan cops prosecuted even if the EVIDENCE doesn’t warrant prosecution. cite? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/51 "2016-10-17T13:45:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Interestingly, and unlike many cases involving violent altercations and the police, _nobody died_. Might be worth considering. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19704353&postcount=9772](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19704353&postcount=9772) “I can hear the argument right now, the cop may be in the hospital for a few days but noone is dead and the bad guy is in jail, better than a dead guy who beat a cop unconscious.” I believe it is worth putting a cop in the hospital to save an innocent life. I can be convinced that it is worth putting a cop in the hospital to save a criminal’s life. I’m not as convinced that it is worth putting a cop in the hospital to save the life of someone that is actively assaulting a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/52 "2016-10-17T14:28:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > cite? turns out “hands up, don’t shoot” was a fabrication turns out " shot while handcuffed" was a fabrication hard to believe anything Black Lives Matter state The hate group Westboro Group has more credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/53 "2016-10-17T14:42:35Z")
“Cite” actually means linking to a source, preferably credible, that supports what you have said. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/54 "2016-10-17T14:46:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Without naming any posters by name specifically, I think this thread is simply turning into a “Agree to disagree” thing. > We have posters who believe that cops don’t suffer significant repercussions from public scrutiny and that the media has their back. And we have posters who don’t hold that view. Humans cannot access truth. Not a one of us. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/55 "2016-10-17T15:20:58Z")
I was looking for a cite that someone from BLM said “if the city burns down, it’s on you !” > [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > turns out “hands up, don’t shoot” was a fabrication Sure, I think the evidence supports this conclusion wrt Michael Brown but Walter Scott was shot and then had a taser planted on his corpse. > [@](#): > > turns out " shot while handcuffed" was a fabrication I don’t know which time you mean because there are certainly instances where handcuffed suspects were shot. > [@](#): > > hard to believe anything Black Lives Matter state They make a lot of assumptions and they are wrong (a LOT) but do you think they are highlighting an non-existent problem? > [@](#): > > The hate group Westboro Group has more credibility. No, no they don’t. Westboro baptist church does not have anything like the Walter Scott shooting to point to. ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/56 "2016-10-17T15:34:34Z")
“shot while handcuffed” another Black Lives Matter fabrication in a case in Minnesota just this summer. Black Lives Matter want cops prosecuted even if the evidence doesn’t support prosecution. THAT…plus shouting death threats to cops…sure fits the definition of a HATE group ! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/57 "2016-10-17T16:02:44Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > “shot while handcuffed” > > another Black Lives Matter fabrication in a case in Minnesota just this summer. > > Black Lives Matter want cops prosecuted even if the evidence doesn’t support prosecution. > > THAT…plus shouting death threats to cops…sure fits the definition of a HATE group ! You’re not describing BLM – you’re describing a fantasy distortion of BLM. Some assholes might shout death threats, but BLM opposes any violence and advocates for peaceful resolution of their complaints. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/58 "2016-10-17T16:22:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In [2015](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-no-convictions-cops-charged-murder-2015-article-1.2486371), there were 1200 people shot and killed by cops, 18 cops charged, none convicted. So you are looking at more of 98.5% chance of not being chaged, and a 100% chance of not being convicted. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’re citing from an opinion piece by a guy with strong views on the subject - never a good idea. > > Just by way of example, it’s ridiculous to talk about the percentage of people convicted of killings committed in 2015 when you’re writing an article on January 5, 2016 - if there were going to be convictions for these killings it would take a lot longer than that. So this guy is clearly trying to mislead using stats, and it’s a mistake to trust anything he says (even if this wasn’t otherwise obvious). Just to provide one example here: The fatal shooting of Jeremy Mardis was, in my opinion, the most horrific police shooting of 2015. It happened on November 3rd, and the two officers involved were both charged with murder and are awaiting trial. I think they’re likely to be convicted, but the wheels of justice turn slowly. I don’t think their trials have even started yet. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/59 "2016-10-17T16:25:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re not describing BLM – you’re describing a fantasy distortion of BLM. It’s not a “fantasy”. Some people who show up at BlackLivesMatter protests do some violent crap. It may not be the official position of the BlackLivesMatter movement, to the extent that a “movement” can have an official position, but it certainly isn’t a fantasy. There are videos all over YouTube showing it. And I think the argument that violence isn’t their official position is even a bit tenuous. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/60 "2016-10-17T16:34:55Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > At least cops aren’t being singled out for investigation because of their race. They sort of are. Certainly white cops shooting black suspects get far more “media investigation” than if it’s white-on-white, black-on-black, or black-on-white. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866.md?page=4)