# Ferguson Effect **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866 "2016-10-07T16:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/61 "2016-10-17T16:38:35Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Humans cannot access truth. Cite? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/62 "2016-10-17T16:41:57Z")
When Black Lives Matter get told at a news conference that the EVIDENCE in the Jamar Clark case does NOT support " hand cuffed while shot"…and the reply is…" if the city burns, its on you "… sounds like a racial HATE group When Black Lives Matter chant …"pigs on a stick, roast em "…at the Minnesota State Fair… sounds like a racial HATE group to me. when at University of Missouri they entice gullible white students to join them in protests, then tell the whites to get out of their safe room… sounds like a RACIAL HATE group to me ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/63 "2016-10-17T16:46:12Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I was looking for a cite that someone from BLM said “if the city burns down, it’s on you !” NAACP, if that matters - the person in question is pretty involved in BLM rhetoric and activities, in the sense of also [lying about that](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/minnesota-naacp-leader-shocks-cnn-police-are-behind-the-black-lives-matter-shooting/). > [@](#): > > “All you did was push the information from the officers, who were the ones who victimized and ultimately murdered Jamar,” she said. “You, Mr. Freeman, did not give a fair and accurate depiction of what took place during the investigation. Let me tell you, if this city burns, it’s on your hands.” [Cite](http://www.citypages.com/news/black-lives-matter-minneapolis-we-dont-trust-the-police-story-about-jamar-clark-8164983). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/64 "2016-10-17T17:17:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not a “fantasy”. Some people who show up at BlackLivesMatter protests do some violent crap. It may not be the official position of the BlackLivesMatter movement, to the extent that a “movement” can have an official position, but it certainly isn’t a fantasy. There are videos all over YouTube showing it. And I think the argument that violence isn’t their official position is even a bit tenuous. It’s a fantasy that the tiny minority of violent assholes represent the aims and motives of BLM as a whole. Every BLM organization and supporting organization (such as the NAACP) explicitly condemns violence. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/65 "2016-10-17T17:56:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s a fantasy that the tiny minority of violent assholes represent the aims and motives of BLM as a whole. Every BLM organization and supporting organization (such as the NAACP) explicitly condemns violence. And yet, when they get together in large numbers, violence is frequently the result. Let me ask you this: are there any protests in the last few years that you’d say were primarily “BlackLivesMatter” events? If so, which ones? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/66 "2016-10-17T18:04:48Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > and what kind of a person are you ? I think the way you characterize BLM is racist. That’s all I’ll say about it in GD ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/67 "2016-10-17T18:17:31Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > When Black Lives Matter get told at a news conference that the EVIDENCE in the Jamar Clark case does NOT support " hand cuffed while shot"…and the reply is…" if the city burns, its on you "… > > sounds like a racial HATE group > > When Black Lives Matter chant …"pigs on a stick, roast em "…at the Minnesota State Fair… > > sounds like a racial HATE group to me. > > when at University of Missouri they entice gullible white students to join them in protests, then tell the whites to get out of their safe room… Funny, something about you seems so familiar… can’t really place it… oh well, I’m sure it will come to me… Meanwhile, welcome to the board! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/68 "2016-10-17T18:23:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And yet, when they get together in large numbers, violence is frequently the result. > > Let me ask you this: are there any protests in the last few years that you’d say were primarily “BlackLivesMatter” events? If so, which ones? There have been hundreds of such protests. The vast majority have been peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/69 "2016-10-17T19:08:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There have been hundreds of such protests. The vast majority have been peaceful. Have there been any non-BLM protests recently that you can think of where someone was shot or arson was committed? I’ve been trying to think of some, and can’t really come up with any. Benghazi, I suppose, if you believe the party line on it being fueled by a protest against a YouTube video. Are there others? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/70 "2016-10-17T19:21:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Have there been any non-BLM protests recently that you can think of where someone was shot or arson was committed? I’ve been trying to think of some, and can’t really come up with any. Benghazi, I suppose, if you believe the party line on it being fueled by a protest against a YouTube video. Are there others? This is a weird way to look at it – most BLM protests have not been violent. A few have, and those have gotten far more press than the peaceful protests (which is expected). In the last few years I believe that BLM has, by far, been the most frequent large-scale protest movement in the US, so with far more instances there will be more opportunities for violent assholes to act out. I don’t think this infrequent violence, which is denounced by BLM leaders and supporters, tells us anything about the movement as a whole. As to violence at other protests, I don’t know. I don’t know of many other protests that have been nearly as frequent in the US, and I know even less about protests outside of the US. I suppose Trump rallies could be compared, and some have featured violence. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/71 "2016-10-17T19:29:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If you have time to think about what the media may do, then, yes, you are not in fear of your life. Both time and what fight or flight does to you make that impossible. You will focus on the present moment. Do you speak from experience? Even if the answer is yes, it’s irrelevant since the standard is not what that person felt, but what a reasonable person would feel. Do you think it impossible to think of other tangentially related things when in fear of great bodily harm or death? The idea that a person would be unable to contemplate such things simultaneously is not credible. In addition, it’s not simply fear of death that would make shooting justifiable, it is also justifiable if a reasonable person believes the action necessary to prevent great bodily harm, or the commission of a forcible felony. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/72 "2016-10-17T19:31:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a weird way to look at it – most BLM protests have not been violent. A few have, and those have gotten far more press than the peaceful protests (which is expected). In the last few years I believe that BLM has, by far, been the most frequent large-scale protest movement in the US, so with far more instances there will be more opportunities for violent assholes to act out. I don’t think this infrequent violence, which is denounced by BLM leaders and supporters, tells us anything about the movement as a whole. > > As to violence at other protests, I don’t know. I don’t know of many other protests that have been nearly as frequent in the US, and I know even less about protests outside of the US. I suppose Trump rallies could be compared, and some have featured violence. I don’t think it’s a weird way to look at it all. As far as you and I know, BlackLivesMatter is the movement behind the most violent protests in the country in recent years. They’ve featured, at their worst, looting, arson, and a shooting spree. Nothing else is remotely close. The next-closest thing to a violent protest either of us can think of is a few punches thrown at some Trump rallies. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/73 "2016-10-17T19:33:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think it’s a weird way to look at it all. As far as you and I know, BlackLivesMatter is the movement behind the most violent protests in the country in recent years. They’re also the movement behind – by far – the greatest number of peaceful protests in recent years. > [@](#): > > They’ve featured, at their worst, looting, arson, and a shooting spree. Nothing else is remotely close. The next-closest thing to a violent protest either of us can think of is a few punches thrown at some Trump rallies. At their best (and far more commonly then at their worst), they’ve featured peaceful protests with neighborly exchanges and discussion between police and protesters. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/74 "2016-10-17T19:46:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think it’s a weird way to look at it all. As far as you and I know, BlackLivesMatter is the movement behind the most violent protests in the country in recent years. They’ve featured, at their worst, looting, arson, and a shooting spree. Nothing else is remotely close. The next-closest thing to a violent protest either of us can think of is a few punches thrown at some Trump rallies. Do the (mostly white) sports riots count? In the last few years, such riots have involved looting, arson, and shootings. Or do they not count because they are just people having a good time and not people protesting horrible injustice? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/75 "2016-10-17T19:46:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They’re also the movement behind – by far – the greatest number of peaceful protests in recent years. I’m not certain that’s true, at least if we’re lumping “Trump rallies” into the same category, as you appeared to do in post #70. He’s held a lot of rallies. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > At their best (and far more commonly then at their worst), they’ve featured peaceful protests with neighborly exchanges and discussion between police and protesters. I want to believe that. It’s quite possibly true. Certainly the violent ones get the most attention in the media. I don’t know even know how we could confirm that there have been a lot of non-violent ones. Do they post a list somewhere or something? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/76 "2016-10-17T19:54:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not certain that’s true, at least if we’re lumping “Trump rallies” into the same category, as you appeared to do in post #70. He’s held a lot of rallies. > > I want to believe that. It’s quite possibly true. Certainly the violent ones get the most attention in the media. I don’t know even know how we could confirm that there have been a lot of non-violent ones. Do they post a list somewhere or something? I don’t have an exact count, but BLM has had a lot of protests (at least 1500 if google is correct – can’t link right now, but try googling), and has been around for a longer period of time than Trump’s campaign. There certainly haven’t been close to that many reported as violent, and as far as life-threatening violence, there have been less than a dozen, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/77 "2016-10-17T21:11:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t have an exact count, but BLM has had a lot of protests (at least 1500 if google is correct – can’t link right now, but try googling), and has been around for a longer period of time than Trump’s campaign. There certainly haven’t been close to that many reported as violent, and as far as life-threatening violence, there have been less than a dozen, IIRC. Black Lives Mater blocks freeways, blocks airports, huge shopping malls, state fairs…threatens motorists when the block roads…yet Black Lives Matter supporters call these acts "peaceful " ? They camped out for weeks on city property in Minneapolis and refused to abandon their “slum city” when ordered to do so. and this is called “peaceful” ?" It was not some fringe group doing it. The Black female law professor who was head of both the NAACP and Black Lives Matter in Minnesota would stop in at that "slum city " daily and offer encouragement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/78 "2016-10-17T21:25:44Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > Black Lives Mater blocks freeways, blocks airports, huge shopping malls, state fairs…threatens motorists when the block roads…yet Black Lives Matter supporters call these acts "peaceful " ? > > They camped out for weeks on city property in Minneapolis and refused to abandon their “slum city” when ordered to do so. > > and this is called “peaceful” ?" > It was not some fringe group doing it. > The Black female law professor who was head of both the NAACP and Black Lives Matter in Minnesota would stop in at that "slum city " daily and offer encouragement. Other than the threats (which, again, are from a few assholes and not the movement at large), that’s all civil disobedience, and Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil rights movement in the 60s engaged in the exact same tactics. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/79 "2016-10-17T21:42:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > And none of those forms of scrutiny would lead a rational person not to defend their own life. I continue to submit that if police are choosing not to shoot because of these factors, then that’s a good thing, because it means their lives were not truly in danger. Except Police also have the responsibility of protecting the lives of innocents. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/80 "2016-10-17T22:01:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t have an exact count, but BLM has had a lot of protests (at least 1500 if google is correct – can’t link right now, but try googling) I think [You are being redirected...](https://elephrame.com/textbook/BLM) is the source you’re looking at. It’s a bit suspect. First off, the title claims “At least 1,541 Black Lives Matter demonstrations have been held in the last 821 days”, but they only provided information on 55 pages of 20 each, which is only 1100, unless I really suck at math. Just looking back through their archives, they seem to double-count some events, like “Colin Kaepernick sits/kneels during national anthem” in San Francisco, CA on August 26, 2016 as two separate protests. And they count individual acts like “Marcus Peters raised fist at Chiefs vs Chargers NFL game” and “Brandon Marshall kneels during national anthem at NFL games” as BLM protests. I suppose it is, in a way, although when I was referring to BLM protests, I was definitely thinking more along the lines of a “mass demonstration” or something involving more than lone individuals. In short, I don’t know if that list is very reliable, but it definitely looks like there have been “hundreds” of multi-person BLM protests, and many of them don’t have violence, at least not that’s reported in the news. I still wouldn’t want anyone I care about attending a BLM protest (or getting caught in the path of one). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866.md?page=5)