# Ferguson Effect **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866 "2016-10-07T16:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/81 "2016-10-17T23:47:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re not describing BLM – you’re describing a fantasy distortion of BLM. Some assholes might shout death threats, but BLM opposes any violence and advocates for peaceful resolution of their complaints. Are they participating in the protest? Then they are as much a part of BLM as the tea partiers portraying Obama as a witch doctor are part of the tea party ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/82 "2016-10-17T23:49:01Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > “shot while handcuffed” > > another Black Lives Matter fabrication in a case in Minnesota just this summer. > > Black Lives Matter want cops prosecuted even if the evidence doesn’t support prosecution. > > THAT…plus shouting death threats to cops…sure fits the definition of a HATE group ! Shouting death threats? You have a cite for any of this? You still haven’t provided a cite for the warning that if the city burns is on the DA ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/83 "2016-10-18T00:00:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > NAACP, if that matters - the person in question is pretty involved in BLM rhetoric and activities, in the sense of also [lying about that](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/minnesota-naacp-leader-shocks-cnn-police-are-behind-the-black-lives-matter-shooting/).[Cite](http://www.citypages.com/news/black-lives-matter-minneapolis-we-dont-trust-the-police-story-about-jamar-clark-8164983). > > Regards, > Shodan Ok. That’s pretty damning. They really ought to replace the entire Minneapolis NAACP with more level headed people. If the city burns is on the heads of the people who light the fire. It is irresponsible to imply that rioting is justified because an elected district attorney doesn’t find there is enough evidence to indict policemen who killed a suspect. We still live in a functional democracy. Rioting is inexcusable and making these sort of statements is grossly irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/84 "2016-10-18T00:03:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s a fantasy that the tiny minority of violent assholes represent the aims and motives of BLM as a whole. Every BLM organization and supporting organization (such as the NAACP) explicitly condemns violence. In this particular case, they seem to be justifying it. That rioting is the result of what the district attorney did (or declined to do) ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/85 "2016-10-18T02:51:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Other than the threats (which, again, are from a few assholes and not the movement at large), that’s all civil disobedience, and Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil rights movement in the 60s engaged in the exact same tactics. comparing Black Lives Matter with Martin Luther King is disgracing the legacy of Martin Luther King. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/86 "2016-10-18T12:06:51Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > comparing Black Lives Matter with Martin Luther King is disgracing the legacy of Martin Luther King. I’m comparing the movements, not the people. As for the movements, they are indeed comparable, at least according to the vast majority of living civil rights protesters, like John Lewis, who worked closely with MLK Jr. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/87 "2016-10-18T12:08:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think [You are being redirected...](https://elephrame.com/textbook/BLM) is the source you’re looking at. It’s a bit suspect. First off, the title claims “At least 1,541 Black Lives Matter demonstrations have been held in the last 821 days”, but they only provided information on 55 pages of 20 each, which is only 1100, unless I really suck at math. Just looking back through their archives, they seem to double-count some events, like “Colin Kaepernick sits/kneels during national anthem” in San Francisco, CA on August 26, 2016 as two separate protests. And they count individual acts like “Marcus Peters raised fist at Chiefs vs Chargers NFL game” and “Brandon Marshall kneels during national anthem at NFL games” as BLM protests. I suppose it is, in a way, although when I was referring to BLM protests, I was definitely thinking more along the lines of a “mass demonstration” or something involving more than lone individuals. In short, I don’t know if that list is very reliable, but it definitely looks like there have been “hundreds” of multi-person BLM protests, and many of them don’t have violence, at least not that’s reported in the news. I still wouldn’t want anyone I care about attending a BLM protest (or getting caught in the path of one). I know at least 20 people who have attended BLM protests and none of them have had anything bad happen to them. They are relatively frequent in DC, and there hasn’t been any violence that I’m aware of at any of the dozens of protests here over the last year or so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/88 "2016-10-18T12:09:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In this particular case, they seem to be justifying it. That rioting is the result of what the district attorney did (or declined to do) I won’t disagree that decisions by authorities can contribute to anger that can lead to rioting, but I’ll disagree with anyone who claims that this is a justification for violence. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/89 "2016-10-18T13:22:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a weird way to look at it – most BLM protests have not been violent. A few have, and those have gotten far more press than the peaceful protests (which is expected). In the last few years I believe that BLM has, by far, been the most frequent large-scale protest movement in the US, so with far more instances there will be more opportunities for violent assholes to act out. The Tea Party had protests against obamacare almost every day for a while there and there were very few riots IIRC. So in this way the Tea Party is actually better than BLM. Good job BLM. > [@](#): > > I don’t think this infrequent violence, which is denounced by BLM leaders and supporters, tells us anything about the movement as a whole. And yet we have leaders of the NAACP telling the DA that if the city burns its the DAs fault. Not the rioters fault (because they are being FORCED to riot. Not the BLM leader’s fault for failing to get out ahead of any potential violence. Nope, its the DA’s fault for not metaphorically handing the police officers over to the lynch mob that formed outside his office. This tells us something about the BLM movement (assuming you think that the NAACP is involved with the BLM movement). > [@](#): > > As to violence at other protests, I don’t know. I don’t know of many other protests that have been nearly as frequent in the US, and I know even less about protests outside of the US. I suppose Trump rallies could be compared, and some have featured violence. Trump supporters don’t actually riot or loot stores but otherwise, I am willing to concede that BLM is only a little worse than the average Trump supporter. Good job BLM. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/90 "2016-10-18T13:28:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They’re also the movement behind – by far – the greatest number of peaceful protests in recent years. How violent were the tea party protests? BLM fails to match the standards of the Tea Party and you think its win? > [@](#): > > At their best (and far more commonly then at their worst), they’ve featured peaceful protests with neighborly exchanges and discussion between police and protesters. At their best trump supporters sound a lot like Bernie supporters. They bemoan the influence of money in politics and choose a self funding candidate. They bemoan the influence of corporations and their influence in government. They bemoan the effect of using global trade as a diplomacy tool has had on American workers. If Trump supporters ONLY did this, we wouldn’t think they were horrible either. At their best, Hamas is a humanitarian organization that builds schools and hospitals and conducts lot of charitable work. never mind that tiny sliver of hamas that blows up innocent civilians in Tel Aviv, that’s the rare exception. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/91 "2016-10-18T13:36:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think [You are being redirected...](https://elephrame.com/textbook/BLM) is the source you’re looking at. It’s a bit suspect. First off, the title claims “At least 1,541 Black Lives Matter demonstrations have been held in the last 821 days”, but they only provided information on 55 pages of 20 each, which is only 1100, unless I really suck at math. Just looking back through their archives, they seem to double-count some events, like “Colin Kaepernick sits/kneels during national anthem” in San Francisco, CA on August 26, 2016 as two separate protests. And they count individual acts like “Marcus Peters raised fist at Chiefs vs Chargers NFL game” and “Brandon Marshall kneels during national anthem at NFL games” as BLM protests. I suppose it is, in a way, although when I was referring to BLM protests, I was definitely thinking more along the lines of a “mass demonstration” or something involving more than lone individuals. In short, I don’t know if that list is very reliable, but it definitely looks like there have been “hundreds” of multi-person BLM protests, and many of them don’t have violence, at least not that’s reported in the news. I still wouldn’t want anyone I care about attending a BLM protest (or getting caught in the path of one). Wait, they’re counting Colin Ferguson or some high school cheerleaders taking a knee while WWII veterans hold the flag for the national anthem? That’s not protest, that’s just disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/92 "2016-10-18T13:38:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I won’t disagree that decisions by authorities can contribute to anger that can lead to rioting, but I’ll disagree with anyone who claims that this is a justification for violence. The NAACP is preemptively laying the blame for any violence at the feet of the district attorney. That doesn’t sound like a movement that is dedicated to non-violence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/93 "2016-10-18T13:43:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The Tea Party had protests against obamacare almost every day for a while there and there were very few riots IIRC. So in this way the Tea Party is actually better than BLM. Good job BLM. > > And yet we have leaders of the NAACP telling the DA that if the city burns its the DAs fault. Not the rioters fault (because they are being FORCED to riot. Not the BLM leader’s fault for failing to get out ahead of any potential violence. Nope, its the DA’s fault for not metaphorically handing the police officers over to the lynch mob that formed outside his office. This tells us something about the BLM movement (assuming you think that the NAACP is involved with the BLM movement). > > Trump supporters don’t actually riot or loot stores but otherwise, I am willing to concede that BLM is only a little worse than the average Trump supporter. Good job BLM. Considering how many hundreds of peaceful BLM protests there have been, I think it’s reasonable to believe that they’re as peaceful or more peaceful on average than these others you mention. In many cities there have been hundreds of such protests without any violence at all. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The NAACP is preemptively laying the blame for any violence at the feet of the district attorney. That doesn’t sound like a movement that is dedicated to non-violence. That was one person, and there are far, far more statements by other NAACP leaders (and from other groups) condemning violence without reservation. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/94 "2016-10-18T15:03:23Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Wait, they’re counting Colin Ferguson or some high school cheerleaders taking a knee while WWII veterans hold the flag for the national anthem? That’s not protest, that’s just disrespectful. How is that not protest? You complain that if a large number of people get together for a protest, there is a chance for violent activity to break out, and then you complain if a protest involves a single person (or small group of people), with no chance of violence breaking out. Protests that are “respectful” in that they have no chance to offend or bother anyone don’t get noticed. I’m starting to think that you just don’t like what they have to say, no matter how they say it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/95 "2016-10-18T15:11:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering how many hundreds of peaceful BLM protests there have been, I think it’s reasonable to believe that they’re as peaceful or more peaceful on average than these others you mention. This is crazy talk! Shooting sprees, arson, looting, and racially-motivated mob violence have not (to my knowledge) happened at Trump rallies or Tea Party protests. All of those cases of extreme violence _have_ happened at BLM protests. In no rational worldview can it be said that the group that has had shooting sprees and arson at their protests is “as peaceful or more peaceful” than groups that have not. That’s just insane! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/96 "2016-10-18T15:13:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Protests that are “respectful” in that they have no chance to offend or bother anyone don’t get noticed. I don’t think that’s true at all. The Tea Party managed to get noticed without resorting to arson and looting. They didn’t have to block traffic or throw things at the police. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/97 "2016-10-18T15:20:32Z")
Well, yeah. Most of them have weak hearts and arthritis. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/98 "2016-10-18T15:25:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > How is that not protest? I am not really trying to emphasize the fact that they are assholes. I am emphasizing the fact that including them in the denominator as “protests” to show how few of the “protests” turn violent unreasonably dilutes the pool of protests to the point where the term becomes relatively meaningless for our purposes. > [@](#): > > You complain that if a large number of people get together for a protest, there is a chance for violent activity to break out, I don’t complain of large protests, just the ones that seem to turn violent with relatively high frequency. The Tea Party marches got pretty large sometimes and they didn’t have a lot of looting associated with them. > [@](#): > > and then you complain if a protest involves a single person (or small group of people), with no chance of violence breaking out. > > Protests that are “respectful” in that they have no chance to offend or bother anyone don’t get noticed. I don’t really have a problem with people offending me with their protests. But do you really think this is what we are talking about when we talk about how frequently BLM protests turn violent? > [@](#): > > I’m starting to think that you just don’t like what they have to say, no matter how they say it. What do they have to say other than bringing attention to police brutality and the fact that this brutality is disproportionately concentrated on black victims? I don’t disagree with that. I disagree with the rioting and looting. I disagree with people making it seem like the violence and looting is actually pretty rare by stuffing the denominator with high school cheerleaders taking a knee during the national anthem. There have been several incidents of violence and looting. In all the years of tea party rallies and marches by racists and facists in the tea party, I don’t recall very many riots breaking out or businesses getting looted or buildings getting burned down. Its not acceptable and trying to blame the DA for it is not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/99 "2016-10-18T15:26:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think that’s true at all. The Tea Party managed to get noticed without resorting to arson and looting. They didn’t have to block traffic or throw things at the police. If you see what I was replying to, you would see that I was talking about when one, or a small group of athletes kneels instead of stands for the national anthem. DA, did not seem to think that that was a protest, just being disrespectful. The tea party was definitely disrespectful towards Obama, and that’s what made them get noticed. If not a single tea parties had had racist signs, shirts or chants, then they would have gone unnoticed. I am not sure how you get from that to arson, looting, blocking traffic, or throwing things at the police, or were those cheerleaders a bit more riled up then I thought they were? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866/100 "2016-10-18T15:27:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering how many hundreds of peaceful BLM protests there have been, I think it’s reasonable to believe that they’re as peaceful or more peaceful on average than these others you mention. Really? What riots and looting have been associated with Tea Party events? How about BLM? Good job BLM!!! > [@](#): > > In many cities there have been hundreds of such protests without any violence at all. Cite? Or are you including taking a knee at football games as protests? > [@](#): > > That was one person, and there are far, far more statements by other NAACP leaders (and from other groups) condemning violence without reservation. It was a spokeswoman for the NAACP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-effect/767866.md?page=6)