# Ferguson Grand Jury Decision to be announced at 9pm EST **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 24, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543 "2014-11-24T23:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/81 "2014-11-25T05:55:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m only 5 hours away from St Louis. We had a few protests right after the shooting. Nothing major. We’re hoping things stay quiet this time too. > [http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2014/02/28/little-rock-makes-top-10-crime-list](http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2014/02/28/little-rock-makes-top-10-crime-list) I’m only 8 hours from St. Louis. When should I start to panic? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/82 "2014-11-25T05:58:03Z")
There’s a Panera Bread in my town. I think I’m going to panic. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/83 "2014-11-25T05:58:59Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They just don’t understand that whatever sympathy they had quickly evaporates when they shoot at the police, throw Molotov cocktails, and burn cars or buildings. Sort of makes you turn a deaf ear to the message they are trying to spread. > [@wolfman](#): > > Don’t forget the stolen potato chips, Nothing shows commitment to bettering society like running with an armload of liquor store Ruffles. Some of y’all seem to have a misapprehension of what the “message” of a riot is. To wit, _this shit will cost you_. It’s not about “bettering society,” it’s purely reactive. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/84 "2014-11-25T06:05:10Z")
CNN just showed a forensic evidence document from the Grand Jury document dump that definitively shows that Mike Brown has moved at least 25 feet back towards Wilson. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/85 "2014-11-25T06:10:04Z")
Do you see the desperation in this community? They finally get to loot and where do they go? McDonalds. Walgreens. So much for the American dream. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/86 "2014-11-25T06:46:10Z")
Well, I guess the rioters figured out how to stay warm on a cold night. :rolleyes: urban campfires > **[Fires, chaos erupt in Ferguson after grand jury doesn’t indict in Michael...](https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/justice/ferguson-grand-jury/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)** > > A Missouri grand jury has decided not to indict Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson in the August 9 shooting death of Michael Brown. > [@](#): > > An entire row of businesses are now on fire on West Florissant Avenue, a major street in Ferguson, Missouri. There are so many fires in the city that firefighters haven’t been able to reach all of them, CNN’s Sara Sidner said. > [@](#): > > Several more businesses are being looted or set on fire in Ferguson, Missouri. Meanwhile, protesters have shut down Interstate 44. Police officers are now standing in a line across highway lanes. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/87 "2014-11-25T06:47:30Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I honestly have always said rioters should be shot on sight. This was standard protocol in the past. Napoleon cleared the streets with cannons and the British used to have the riot act. People need to learn that the cost for violating law and order is a heavy one. The stability of the state is always supreme over the rights of rioters. Yes, Napoleon is clearly the democratic model you want to follow. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/88 "2014-11-25T07:13:35Z")
This is happening because the criminals know the cop’s hands are tied. It’s been reported for weeks how the local cops got schooled on the constitutional rights of protesters. They got Eric Holder and his bunch just itching to file civil rights charges against a cop. So there’s not much the cops can do except stand in a line and lob tear gas. No one wants to shoot one of these guys and become the next Darren Wilson. They don’t pay cops enough to risk jail. At some point the violence will end on its own. Until then its going to get ugly. > **[Missouri Governor Outlines Law Enforcement Preparation for Jury Announcement...](https://www.newsweek.com/mo-gov-jay-nixon-announces-law-enforcement-measures-grand-jury-announcement-283856)** > > Law enforcement officials from three agencies will be on hand to maintain order in and around St. Louis when a grand jury announces whether Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson will face charges in the shooting death of Michael Brown. > [@](#): > > Nixon and Belmar told reporters that officers from all three law enforcement agencies had undergone hours of “specialized training, with an emphasis on protecting constitutional rights of peaceful demonstrators.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/89 "2014-11-25T07:33:14Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I honestly have always said rioters should be shot on sight. . Post bookmarked for the next time i’m tempted to take your arguments seriously in any conversation about democracy, constitutionality, judicial procedure, and the justice system more generally. ---
**Author:** ![InfiniteJest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@InfiniteJest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfiniteJest)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/90 "2014-11-25T07:43:45Z")
Liberals: Bill Cosby is a rapist and we don’t need a trial to prove that! Darren Wilson murdered Brown and we don’t need a trial to prove it! George Zimmerman is guilty and fuck the jury’s verdict! Ah, liberals. Petty authoritarians just like the Republicans. And what’s the matter with the libs? Getting tired of the other black guy, Obama? Of all blacks why must you choose a dead guy to be your standard holder? A guy who robbed a store, beat up a cop, and had been smoking weed. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/91 "2014-11-25T07:56:26Z")
> [@InfiniteJest](#): > > Liberals: > > Bill Cosby is a rapist and we don’t need a trial to prove that! > > Darren Wilson murdered Brown and we don’t need a trial to prove it! > > George Zimmerman is guilty and fuck the jury’s verdict! > > Ah, liberals. Petty authoritarians just like the Republicans. > > And what’s the matter with the libs? Getting tired of the other black guy, Obama? Of all blacks why must you choose a dead guy to be your standard holder? A guy who robbed a store, beat up a cop, and had been smoking weed. Wow it’s almost as if InfiniteRacist would be a more apt username for you. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/92 "2014-11-25T07:56:41Z")
> [@InfiniteJest](#): > > Liberals: > > Bill Cosby is a rapist and we don’t need a trial to prove that! > > Darren Wilson murdered Brown and we don’t need a trial to prove it! > > George Zimmerman is guilty and fuck the jury’s verdict! > > Ah, liberals. Petty authoritarians just like the Republicans. > > And what’s the matter with the libs? Getting tired of the other black guy, Obama? Of all blacks why must you choose a dead guy to be your standard holder? A guy who robbed a store, beat up a cop, and had been smoking weed. The Obama card? Really? You’re that desperate? I guess all blacks have to get lumped into the same narrative in your little world, right? Your problem—well, ONE of your problems—is that you fail to understand the difference between a socio-cultural opinion and a legal verdict. I believe that, given the weight of the testimony, Bill Cosby is probably a rapist. If i were on a jury where Bill Cosby were charged with rape, however, it would need far more evidence than i have seen in the news for me to convict him of the charge, and in the vast majority (all?) of the cases, he is probably beyond the statute of limitations, so i understand that he would be beyond criminal punishment anyway. I believe, based on my reading of the case, that the Grand Jury in the Ferguson case reached a decision compatible with the facts, with the case presented by the prosecutor, and with the law as it currently stands. I also believe that Michael Brown contributed in considerable measure to the violence of the encounter. None of this prevents me from believing that there is structural racism in America’s police forces, or that Officer Wilson would have treated a white suspect differently under otherwise-identical circumstances. I believe that the evidence available, especially the lack of eyewitnesses to the beginning of the altercation, meant that the right decision was reached in the Zimmerman case. I also believe, however, that Zimmerman was largely responsible for the confrontation, that this resulted from his preconceptions about black male teenagers, and that he bears considerable responsibility for the circumstances leading to the death of Trayvon Martin. I also believe it’s possible that he began the altercation, contrary to his own testimony in the matter, because i believe him to be an unreliable and fundamentally dishonest person. But, in our justice system, being an asshole doesn’t make you guilty of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/93 "2014-11-25T08:25:07Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They just don’t understand that whatever sympathy they had quickly evaporates when they shoot at the police What use do they have for sympathy? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/94 "2014-11-25T08:48:21Z")
It just occurred to me that the community leaders and other peaceful marchers never got an opportunity to assemble after the grand jury ruling. Didn’t the criminals move in with the riots almost immediately? They’ve hijacked a community movement that had long standing grievances with the policing in Ferguson. I’m glad they stayed off the streets tonight. Hopefully they can be heard after order is restored. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/95 "2014-11-25T09:10:33Z")
Tell me (looking from outside): why is this happening? The United States has the largest economy in the world. America has extraordinary resources. Most of you are educated. Your legal system is admired and deservedly so. American law goes further than most other nations to protect the rights of the individual. I just don’t understand the over-reaction by people in Ferguson. Certainly Mr Browns extended family and supporters can be expected to be angry but that’s an understandable process of grief. Here there are unrelated people shooting guns, torching cars and buildings? Maybe in Somalia or eastern Ukraine but in the Home of the Free?? ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/96 "2014-11-25T09:56:17Z")
Racism here runs deep. The largely white police force has a long and complex history of targeting non-white individuals and not doing right by them. This case has been held up as a perfect example of problems that have existed ever since white people showed up on this continent, killing the people who already lived here and taking over the land on the backs of their slaves. It’s centuries old and deeply ingrained, complicated, and way too slow to change. I’m too tired to get into specifics, it’s been a long night and I’m getting my butt to bed as I have to be up in 5 hours. I’m sure someone with a more in depth explanation will come along. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/97 "2014-11-25T09:56:53Z")
That’s a helluva question, **Ken001**. If forced to cough up an answer, I’d say that yes, this is the land of the free. For a large subset of people, that means free to be poor, free to be disenfranchised, free to be a have-not in a culture dominated by haves. To me that leads to endemic resentment that can flare up in response to perceived injustice. It also could be that more than a few of the looters and arsonists in Ferguson tonight do not live there but have come there opportunistically. In point of fact, Brown’s family have repeatedly called for peace and calm tonight and previously. It looks like Steve Martin’s character Navin Johnson in the film _The Jerk_ got some substantial advice from his (black) brother when Navin left home to find his way in the world : _“Don’t trust whitey.”_ I’m an American Indian, so I can’t say I entirely disagree with it. ETA : Wow. Eerie simul-post. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/98 "2014-11-25T10:00:22Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/99 "2014-11-25T12:32:34Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > I’d love to hear what else they are supposed to be doing. In another 10 minutes, they’re responding to looting at a Shop&Save, looting and a large crowd at a Dollar General, another cardiac arrest, a seizure at a nursing home, and looting at Walgreens which is confirmed on fire now. > > I can’t stop listening and it’s just making me cry. Jeez, the poor employees of those stores just trying to be at work. Sorry, my iPad died last night, mid-response. I can imagine a situation where community leaders and Michael Brown’s parents were given a venue to directly address the crowds, calling for peaceful protest. Something sanctioned and assisted by law enforcement, rather than from minute one being treated like the enemy. That attitude sets up confrontation. A reporter I was watching said the crowd was trying to police itself but then the cops threw smoke canisters. Having lived for many years in St Louis and my son was born there, I am very sad for the violence and the criminal acts that were done. I believe more could have been done to avert it, if possible. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > Then why bother posting it? Because it’s offers an interesting perspective but I personally can’t vet it. I don’t believe it’s inaccurate, but if someone has info that contradicts it, that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/100 "2014-11-25T12:50:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This was the most complete grand jury investigation possible. They saw all the evidence, heard experts. Much more than a typical grand jury. Heck, they are even releasing the evidence for the public to review. Grand jury proceedings are normally under seal. What more could be done to satisfy everyone that this decision was made fairly? The prosecutor could have done his job. He should have said “A young man was killed and he may be entitled to justice, here are some crimes I think he might need to stand trial for.” THEN we get all that awesome evidence and openness _at trial_. Instead he said “Hey you guys, here’s a big pile of evidence and a crimeless victim. I dunno, some of you figure it out.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543.md?page=6)