# Ferguson Grand Jury Decision to be announced at 9pm EST **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 24, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543 "2014-11-24T23:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/121 "2014-11-25T15:49:10Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Brown is a crimeless victim? Did he assault the officer? Did he steal from the store? Answering those questions would require a trial. Do you understand there will be no trials? Brown can’t be tried because he is dead; Wilson won’t be tried because the prosecutor made no attempt to prosecute. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/122 "2014-11-25T16:00:32Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Wilson won’t be tried because the prosecutor made no attempt to prosecute. It’s not the prosecutor’s job to waste the taxpayers’ money on fruitless courtroom theater. The grand jury found there isn’t enough probable cause to indict, let alone convict. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/123 "2014-11-25T16:24:54Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Answering those questions would require a trial. Do you understand there will be no trials? Brown can’t be tried because he is dead; Wilson won’t be tried because the prosecutor made no attempt to prosecute. During a normal grand jury proceeding the prosecutor does not have to present all of the evidence. He certainly does not have to present any exculpatory evidence. Just enough to show probable cause. In other cases the grand jury is empowered with more responsibility. In this case _all_ of the evidence was presented. The jury found there was not enough probable cause to go forward _even without a defense being presented._ Even though it is not required under state law all of the evidence is being released to the press and public. You can read through the testimony of 70 witnesses and all of the reports if you have the time. Unlike a regular jury the grand jury was able to ask questions directly to the witnesses. In certain areas they have more power than a petit jury. The reason why it is done this way here and in many cases of police shootings throughout the country is simple. If the prosecutor looks at the case and decides that the shooting was justified and decides not to prosecute the uproar would be even worse. He would have no deliberations to point to. He will have not testimony on the record. He will not have a jury of 12 looking at the case independently. It is an effort to keep the proceedings as free of bias as possible. And in this case the federal government was observing every step of the way. In many cases of police shootings community activists push for it to be put in front of a grand jury in order for the proceedings to be placed in the hands of a neutral party. Now I’m pretty sure that everything I said was correct. If not please clarify the facts. Whether it is a good thing to use a grand jury in this way is certainly open for debate. Good thing for you we have Great Debates, down the hall and to the left. (You can call that a **Mod Hint** ) ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/124 "2014-11-25T16:33:10Z")
Loach, perhaps you and other mods can get on the same page: > [@twickster](#): > > This is _ **not** _ the place to debate the facts of the case, racial politics, police behavior, Reps vs. Dems, etc. Go to any of the numerous threads elsewhere on the SDMB to do so. > > Keep this on the specific reactions of people to the verdict, including the rioters. > > I’m not going to go back and mod note the entire thread to this point (and my apologies for having a real life that prevented me from being online until now), but I’m going to be enforcing these moderator instructions going forward. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/125 "2014-11-25T16:43:19Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > Loach, perhaps you and other mods can get on the same page: We are on the same page. There is a leeway in MPSIMS. There can be discussion of events. Some opinion of what is going on. It’s great when someone can point out some facts. What it shouldn’t do is become a debate or a Pitting of anyone or anything. First because this is not the place for it. Second because there are already Pit and GD threads on the matter. But that doesn’t mean there is nothing that can be discussed on a MPSIMy level. Anything further take it to ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/126 "2014-11-25T17:31:44Z")
Now we’re seeing the evidence come to light. It seems that the witnesses [gave wildly differing accounts of what happened.](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/25/what-grand-jury-heard-ferguson-witnesses-account-differs-from-story-on-street/) Some of the accounts supported Officer Wilson’s version of events. Other people changed their story. No matter how much credibility you give to the police officer, it certainly looks like a situation where the evidence simply does not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/127 "2014-11-25T17:41:04Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Now we’re seeing the evidence come to light. It seems that the witnesses [gave wildly differing accounts of what happened.](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/25/what-grand-jury-heard-ferguson-witnesses-account-differs-from-story-on-street/) Some of the accounts supported Officer Wilson’s version of events. Other people changed their story. No matter how much credibility you give to the police officer, it certainly looks like a situation where the evidence simply does not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This was a grand jury, which means the evidence did not even establish probable cause. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/128 "2014-11-25T17:55:21Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > And yet a massive cost _was_ exacted. Pretty clear ‘victory’ to the rioters, to the extent that the concept has any applicability. > > No, not “protestors.” Rioters. As I said, a riot isn’t _about_ addressing public policy. It’s a thing that happens when democratic dynamics have failed. Breaking the windows of a McDonald’s, looting a liquor store, and burning buildings is a clear victory to the rioters if you consider mindless violence to be the victory. The protestors turned into rioters, arsonists, and looters. Protestors began throwing rocks and bottles at the police. Rioters then returned to the safety of the mob of protestors and became protestors again. _I’m not throwing rocks now and you can’t prove that I threw rocks before, regardless of what your lying videos show_. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/129 "2014-11-25T18:02:33Z")
[This morning’s statistics](http://www.stltoday.com/) 61 arrests, almost all of them live in the St. Louis area 10 businesses destroyed by fire. I’ve also heard about a dozen more were looted. [Here’s a map of the incidents](http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/special/map-incidents-in-the-wake-of-the-grand-jury-decision/html_a6ea1a44-9640-58cd-8f84-6c88545e722b.html) - not all of which were in Ferguson. 1 person found dead in his car near the riot. Police call the death “suspicious” but won’t say if it’s directly related to the riot. 2 people reported shot. Authorities say no police fired their weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/130 "2014-11-25T18:12:03Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] AKA those people who are upset that unarmed children are murdered by police. [/QUOTE] I didn’t know that there was a child involved. Do you consider all adult black males as children, or only the ones who get shot? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/131 "2014-11-25T19:35:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I didn’t know that there was a child involved. Do you consider all adult black males as children, or only the ones who get shot? > > Regards, > Shodan He might be referring to an incident the other day where police in Cleveland shot & killed a 12-year-old boy who was waving around what turned out to be a toy gun. They showed a picture of the toy on the news. It looked _exactly_ like a real handgun. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/132 "2014-11-26T02:32:23Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > They were reporting weeks ago that a sizeable portion of the demonstrators were “imported” from other parts of the country. I’d seen that but hadn’t dug deeper. There’s plenty of peaceful groups that travel to the high publicity protest of the day. There’s also those that will say they aren’t pacifist and that go out of the way to incite, train, and encourage “direct action.” I assumed there were some of the later along with some non-regulars looking for riot. Digging in just a touch shows a usual suspect in the person of Lisa Fithian on ground in advance but still making peaceful sounding noises. I was still a little surprised they were so open of discarding the pretense so early. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/133 "2014-11-26T08:11:50Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > Racism here runs deep. The largely white police force has a long and complex history of targeting non-white individuals and not doing right by them. This case has been held up as a perfect example of problems that have existed ever since white people showed up on this continent, killing the people who already lived here and taking over the land on the backs of their slaves. > > It’s centuries old and deeply ingrained, complicated, and way too slow to change. I’m too tired to get into specifics, it’s been a long night and I’m getting my butt to bed as I have to be up in 5 hours. I’m sure someone with a more in depth explanation will come along. > [@jimbuff314](#): > > That’s a helluva question, **Ken001**. If forced to cough up an answer, I’d say that yes, this is the land of the free. For a large subset of people, that means free to be poor, free to be disenfranchised, free to be a have-not in a culture dominated by haves. > > To me that leads to endemic resentment that can flare up in response to perceived injustice. It also could be that more than a few of the looters and arsonists in Ferguson tonight do not live there but have come there opportunistically. In point of fact, Brown’s family have repeatedly called for peace and calm tonight and previously. It looks like Steve Martin’s character Navin Johnson in the film _The Jerk_ got some substantial advice from his (black) brother when Navin left home to find his way in the world : _“Don’t trust whitey.”_ I’m an American Indian, so I can’t say I entirely disagree with it. Thanks guys I appreciate its a complex problem with deep roots. I thought the racism thing had largely faded away for most Americans. Certainly there are loud racist people who garner attention but that happens everywhere and they don’t represent the vast majority of a society. Americans elected a black President. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/134 "2014-11-26T17:14:55Z")
You’re welcome. Hey - Post Count +1 ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543/135 "2014-11-26T17:18:17Z")
Sorry. I meant to say “You _are_ welcome.” Hey - Post Count +1 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-to-be-announced-at-9pm-est/705543.md?page=6)