# Ferguson judge withdraws all arrest warrants before 2015 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763 "2015-08-24T21:54:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/21 "2015-08-24T23:49:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I generally disapprove of soft-on-crime stances, and am generally skeptical of allegations of racism, at least the way the DoJ counts it, so I say it’s a bad thing, sets a bad precedent, and goes too far. > [@Construct](#): > > Absolving criminals of their punishments only encourages future crime and thus will invariably lead to greater law enforcement violence in the future. Ferguson’s problems are moral, not legal. The city needs to stop its moral and cultural decay by enacting policies that create healthy communities with a strong sense of civic pride. > [@Velocity](#): > > Doesn’t seem right. So we’re going to just throw justice out the window? > [@magellan01](#): > > Horrible idea. Some good reasons have been mentioned. Also, it’s the opposite of helpful to send a message that crimes do not have consequences and that, "Hey, who knows, if we riot again 5 or 10 years from now, maybe we can get more crimes given a pass. What Ferguson needs lis more law and order, not less. If one wants to go back and look at specific crimes, or say, crimes tied to a particular officer or judge, fine. But this blanket forgiveness is dumb, dumb, dumb. All of these responses are willfully ignoring the reality of the situation in Ferguson. The legal system in Ferguson isn’t part of the solution. The legal system in Ferguson is part of the problem. Putting some restrictions on the wrongful actions of the legal system is a positive step towards making conditions better. This act is directed against criminals - the criminals in uniform. Once the police department and the court system have been reformed then they can help address the problems out on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/22 "2015-08-25T00:02:55Z")
The root problem is Ferguson is moral and spiritual decay that culminates in a culture that glorifies violence and criminality while tolerating broken homes and families. The Ferguson legal system is impotently trying to manage the symptoms of decline and fund some social services from a population that has minimal taxable income. But until the root problems of modernity are addressed, situations like Ferguson will not only fail to be resolved but will in fact proliferate through and beyond the African American community. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/23 "2015-08-25T00:07:17Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > The root problem is Ferguson is moral and spiritual decay that culminates in a culture that glorifies violence and criminality while tolerating broken homes and families. The Ferguson legal system is feebly trying to do the best it can to manage the symptoms of decline and fund some social services from a population that has minimal taxable income. But until the root problems of modernity are addressed, situations like Ferguson will not only fail to be resolved but will in fact proliferate through and beyond the African American community. This response seems to sort of ignore the findings that the “feeble best” you speak of was a legal system used for revenue generation rather than “manage the symptoms of decline,” and to the extent that it was actually intended to “fund some social services,” the financial burden apparently fell disproportionately upon the very community most in need of those services. Do you dispute the general accuracy of that claim? ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/24 "2015-08-25T00:09:32Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > Absolving criminals of their punishments only encourages future crime and thus will invariably lead to greater law enforcement violence in the future. Ferguson’s problems are moral, not legal. The city needs to stop its moral and cultural decay by enacting policies that create healthy communities with a strong sense of civic pride. I may be misunderstanding the decision, but removing arrest warrants doesn’t absolve the crimes. They’ll still owe the fines for traffic tickets or whatever, they just won’t get thrown in jail for not having the money to pay them. Instead, they’ll be able to work off the fines or use payment plans, which is much more reasonable for most of the petty crimes we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/25 "2015-08-25T00:13:07Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I could be mistaken, but I believe the municipal court only deals with with municipal ordinances and the like, not state crimes like murder: > > [Ferguson Municipal Courts](http://www.fergusoncity.com/60/The-City-Of-Ferguson-Municipal-Courts) > > So, we aren’t talking about springing killers and robbers, more like jaywalking and speeding. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yep – the DOJ showed pretty definitively, IIRC, that minor violations like this were issued as a means of raising funds for the city, and they fell incredibly disproportionately on black residents of Ferguson. This and this. The article says most of them are traffic and fine related. It also says they’ve already written 2,300 warrants this year. For a population of 21k, that’s crazy. This is a “clearing the books” of minor offences and just the first step in cleaning up the system. As the article said, other nearby municipalities have done the same. If anyone thinks murder warrants are being erased or they’re just throwing law and order out the window in Ferguson… Really? Think for a second, does that sound like anything anyone has ever done anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/26 "2015-08-25T00:14:17Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > The root problem is Ferguson is moral and spiritual decay that culminates in a culture that glorifies violence and criminality while tolerating broken homes and families. I for one am not going to stand for this perfidious calumny against the brave members of the Ferguson Police Department. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/27 "2015-08-25T00:36:06Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I may be misunderstanding the decision, but removing arrest warrants doesn’t absolve the crimes. They’ll still owe the fines for traffic tickets or whatever, they just won’t get thrown in jail for not having the money to pay them. Instead, they’ll be able to work off the fines or use payment plans, which is much more reasonable for most of the petty crimes we’re talking about. Perhaps “absolve” was too strong of a word, but this action will still invariably lead to an increase in crime by reducing the costs of doing crime. Many of the people involved have large perpetual debts and threat of imprisonment is a powerful tool that encourages them to pay their debts. That tool has now been defanged. > [@Bricker](#): > > This response seems to sort of ignore the findings that the “feeble best” you speak of was a legal system used for revenue generation rather than “manage the symptoms of decline,” and to the extent that it was actually intended to “fund some social services,” the financial burden apparently fell disproportionately upon the very community most in need of those services. > > Do you dispute the general accuracy of that claim? No, I think that’s pretty much true. But I’ll continue to maintain that it is the best option available and that it improves the quality of life for the people of Ferguson. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/28 "2015-08-25T00:38:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering the egregious nature of the findings of the DOJ report in Ferguson, this sounds like a reasonable response. I’m sure some actual criminals will get lost in the shuffle, but in this instance that seems preferable to all the innocent victims of Ferguson’s cash-building scam of arrest warrant issuing. One of the reasons that we have a criminal justice system is to teach criminals not to commit crimes. If these “lost in the shuffle” offenders still have not mastered the “don’t commit crimes” principle, it is only a matter of time before they commit another one. We can catch them then. This is one of the principles behind Statues of Limitations - that if the person hasn’t committed a more recent crime, then locking them up for a crime committed long ago doesn’t serve the end goals of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/29 "2015-08-25T00:42:26Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > But I’ll continue to maintain that it is the best option available and that it improves the quality of life for the people of Ferguson. Well, not the black people… ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/30 "2015-08-25T00:44:22Z")
Sounds like a step in the right direction to curtail the practice of policing for revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/31 "2015-08-25T00:46:37Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > No, I think that’s pretty much true. But I’ll continue to maintain that it is the best option available and that it improves the quality of life for the people of Ferguson. It seems to me that “best option available” would be one that was not targeting fund-raising goals at the poorest members of the community. Can you explain a bit further why you feel this current incarnation of the system cannot be improved? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/32 "2015-08-25T00:54:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I generally disapprove of soft-on-crime stances, and am generally skeptical of allegations of racism, at least the way the DoJ counts it, so I say it’s a bad thing, sets a bad precedent, and goes too far. Well, that’s a nice attempt to argue from the general! Having read a little big about the treatment of the populace in North County, in this case, I think the judge’s move is probably justified. The local government bled a lot of money from its citizens in strikingly abusive ways. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/33 "2015-08-25T01:03:28Z")
A “little\* bit,”\* that is. A Little Big Bit? ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/34 "2015-08-25T01:11:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me that “best option available” would be one that was not targeting fund-raising goals at the poorest members of the community. Can you explain a bit further why you feel this current incarnation of the system cannot be improved? Fund raising goals shouldn’t be reached through ticketing anyone, but I totally agree targeting the poorest in the community is particularly bad. The easy way to fix this would be to make sure no police departments in any jurisdiction get to keep money from fines. That would remove the incentive to write questionable tickets and reduce the practice of writing multiple tickets for the same offense during the same traffic stop (which the DoJ report states was racist in practice and well above the threshold of being mere chance). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/35 "2015-08-25T01:14:23Z")
> [@theR](#): > > Fund raising goals shouldn’t be reached through ticketing anyone, but I totally agree targeting the poorest in the community is particularly bad. > > The easy way to fix this would be to make sure no police departments in any jurisdiction get to keep money from fines. That would remove the incentive to write questionable tickets and reduce the practice of writing multiple tickets for the same offense during the same traffic stop (which the DoJ report states was racist in practice and well above the threshold of being mere chance). Sure. And in fact such a change would be better, which suggests that **Construct** ’s assessment was in error. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/36 "2015-08-25T01:14:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me that “best option available” would be one that was not targeting fund-raising goals at the poorest members of the community. Can you explain a bit further why you feel this current incarnation of the system cannot be improved? I start with the traditional conservative assumption that man is basically evil. From this, it follows naturally that security and law enforcement is essential. As such, I conclude that the Ferguson system of law enforcement funding is basically good, in the absence of any better method for funding police. And given that Ferguson has basically no alternative method of obtaining money since property prices are low due to high crime, I conclude that the current system is essentially unimprovable and any attempt at reducing the burden on its citizens will only worsen quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/37 "2015-08-25T01:15:08Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > Perhaps “absolve” was too strong of a word, but this action will still invariably lead to an increase in crime by reducing the costs of doing crime. Many of the people involved have large perpetual debts and threat of imprisonment is a powerful tool that encourages them to pay their debts. That tool has now been defanged. > > No, I think that’s pretty much true. But I’ll continue to maintain that it is the best option available and that it improves the quality of life for the people of Ferguson. Have you read the DoJ report on Ferguson? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/38 "2015-08-25T01:16:32Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > The root problem is Ferguson is moral and spiritual decay that culminates in a culture that glorifies violence and criminality while tolerating broken homes and families. The Ferguson legal system is impotently trying to manage the symptoms of decline and fund some social services from a population that has minimal taxable income. There’s no evidence that the Ferguson legal system has been fighting the decay of moral values as you claim. The evidence is that the Ferguson legal system has been contributing to the breakdown of morality in the city. So step one of reversing the moral decline is to turn around the legal system. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/39 "2015-08-25T01:25:39Z")
Police force uses egregious and racist policies to entrap and fleece citizens. Judge orders a clean slate. To me, the judge’s order sounds like America upholding its ideals. But I’m saddened to read some of the comments in this thread. These comments demonstrate once again that those who call SDMB a “liberal” board are wearing blinders. BTW, I’ve been so strongly in favor of law-and-order that my liberal friends complained about it. But it should be very clear by now that much U.S. law enforcement has “gone off the rails.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/40 "2015-08-25T01:36:09Z")
“Tough on crime” doesn’t mean what a lot of people think it means. If I were going to commit a major crime like murder, I’d much rather do it in one of those jurisdictions where they pride themselves on how tough on crime they are. Kill someone in someplace like Texas, and all you have to do is lay low until some poor black kid is arrested and found guilty of it, and it’s case closed. Someplace where they don’t rush to judgement, though, you remain at risk of getting caught for a very long time. Stopping the rush to judgement does not make you soft on crime. It makes you tougher on it, in the long run. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763.md?page=3)