# Ferguson judge withdraws all arrest warrants before 2015 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763 "2015-08-24T21:54:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/61 "2015-08-25T20:01:48Z")
If nothing else, it’s a political statement from this judge that he will no longer rubber stamp police issuing tickets\*. BUT if there are nefarious motives, are municipal judges elected or appointed? \*Like the judge who ruled against me said, “He wouldn’t have given you the ticket if you didn’t roll through that sign. I find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.” ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/62 "2015-08-25T20:23:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How does it work going forward? > > I have $200 in unpaid tickets, say, which I ignore. The judge schedules a hearing where I can either pay, serve the alternate sentence (jail or community service or whatever), or convince the judge I dont have the money. I ignore the notice of the hearing and don’t show up. The court finds me guilty of not paying my fine, and of ignoring the hearing, and increases the fine. > > I then get another ticket. Under the old way, I could be arrested and made to pay. As of now, I get another ticket, which I ignore, and another hearing, which I ignore, leading to more fines, which I ignore, and I get another ticket, which I ignore. > > What is the downside for me of simply ignoring any ticket I get? Nothing happens if I do. > > Regards, > Shodan Two offences. One the reason for the ticket. Two, ignoring the ticket/court summons. The idea should be to do everything possible to prevent the former turning into a custodial sentence for a trivial initial offence; it’s a waste of a life - the consequences are enormous for the individual, and a huge waste of taxpayers money. Some people do lead ridiculously dysfunctional or unorganised lives. That should not lead to prison. Absolutely no ones wins by a driving ticket turning into prison. Too stupid for words. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/63 "2015-08-25T20:28:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If nothing else, it’s a political statement from this judge that he will no longer rubber stamp police issuing tickets\*. Does it do that? Seems like all it does is vacate warrants pre-2015 that are mostly for unpaid fines and failures to appear and gives better payment options than racking up more debt or jail time. I don’t know that it would lessen tickets, but it would lessen the chance of going to jail over them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/64 "2015-08-26T12:32:49Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Presumably (speculating since this isn’t fleshed out very well) the unpaid items can be recovered through garnishments similar to other collection efforts for unpaid items. It works in a number of other areas of unpaid items. Unless the person is unemployed, works off the books, changes jobs frequently, etc. And [there are limits](http://www.stlouisco.com/LawandPublicSafety/CircuitCourt/SheriffsOffice/WageGarnishmentInformation) on how much of someone’s wages can be garnished. Presumably garnishment was an option in Ferguson before this - I wonder why it wasn’t used as extensively as it might have been. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/65 "2015-08-26T13:56:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Presumably garnishment was an option in Ferguson before this - I wonder why it wasn’t used as extensively as it might have been. That’s a good question. We can believe that the PD is doing their best to resolve problems in a reasonable way, but in 6 months of 2015, Ferguson PD issued about 2,000 warrants, or 1 warrant for every 10 residents. Regardless of the reason behind it, that rate is unsustainable, something has to change, and it’s not likely going to be the unemployed mom ponying up $500 in fines instead of paying rent. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/66 "2015-08-26T14:18:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Unless the person is unemployed, works off the books, changes jobs frequently, etc. And [there are limits](http://www.stlouisco.com/LawandPublicSafety/CircuitCourt/SheriffsOffice/WageGarnishmentInformation) on how much of someone’s wages can be garnished. And you don’t see problems with forcing a large group of people to go off the books like that? The legal system has been discouraging poor people in Ferguson from trying to enter the mainstream job market. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/67 "2015-08-26T14:20:24Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Absolutely no ones wins by a driving ticket turning into prison. Too stupid for words. And nobody wins if a unemployed person owes five thousand dollars in unpaid fines and figures there’s no point in seeking a job because all his wages will be taken by the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/68 "2015-08-26T14:45:11Z")
Don’t forget that the judge has strongly suggested that many of these people should show up to court so that the court can decide that the original fines were unjustified in the first place. So one would expect that many of the outstanding fines will simply be rescinded. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/69 "2015-08-26T14:47:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering the egregious nature of the findings of the DOJ report in Ferguson, this sounds like a reasonable response. I’m sure some actual criminals will get lost in the shuffle, but in this instance that seems preferable to all the innocent victims of Ferguson’s cash-building scam of arrest warrant issuing. How are the DOJ findings egregious? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/70 "2015-08-26T14:53:55Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Don’t forget that the judge has strongly suggested that many of these people should show up to court so that the court can decide that the original fines were unjustified in the first place. So one would expect that many of the outstanding fines will simply be rescinded. Right. Like people in Ferguson have such a positive experience of the justice system. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/71 "2015-08-26T15:08:06Z")
> [@ryu238](#): > > How are the DOJ findings egregious? [Read some highlights](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/03/04/the-12-key-highlights-from-the-dojs-scathing-ferguson-report/) and then see if you have the same question. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/72 "2015-08-26T15:23:49Z")
I think it’s plain that the Ferguson city government looks at its poorest citizens as nothing but cash cows to be milked at every opportunity. It seems to me that they give tickets out for the sake of making money, and are delighted when the person can’t pay because they can then be fined more for not paying up in the first place. I think the judge did the right thing, essentially hitting a reset button. The citizens don’t live in fear of being arrested for paying for minor offenses and the city hopefully will exercise better judgment in how it issues citations. I think the best way to encourage respect for the law is to acknowledge when the law is being misused and stopping the misuse of the law by the police and the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/73 "2015-08-26T15:35:43Z")
> [@andros](#): > > [Read some highlights](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/03/04/the-12-key-highlights-from-the-dojs-scathing-ferguson-report/) and then see if you have the same question. I think ryu238 might be confused, as I am, by the way you phrased it. Are you saying the DOJ’s report is egregious or are you saying what the DOJ found is egregious? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/74 "2015-08-26T15:45:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think ryu238 might be confused, as I am, by the way you phrased it. Are you saying the DOJ’s report is egregious or are you saying what the DOJ found is egregious? Well, it was **two eyes andy four eyes** who said it. But yeah, what the DoJ \*found \*was egregious. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/75 "2015-08-26T15:55:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Unless the person is unemployed, works off the books, changes jobs frequently, etc. And [there are limits](http://www.stlouisco.com/LawandPublicSafety/CircuitCourt/SheriffsOffice/WageGarnishmentInformation) on how much of someone’s wages can be garnished. > > Presumably garnishment was an option in Ferguson before this - I wonder why it wasn’t used as extensively as it might have been. > > Regards, > Shodan It depends on what the goal is. If it’s to collect money, wage garnishment is probably more effective than prison. If it’s to imprison people, well, they’re doing a heckuva job! The stats of Ferguson are fucking ridiculous. Putting people in jail is not going to magically make them have money. Pragmatism alone should make that plain. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/76 "2015-08-26T15:58:54Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Right. Like people in Ferguson have such a positive experience of the justice system. Well, exactly. That’s what this whole ruling is about. The judge wants to try to build confidence in the justice system among the local people, so he has cancelled the arrest warrants with the hope that this will make people less reluctant to appear when summoned. There is an argument that this is not going far enough, that the citations and fines should just be swept away as an initial step. I think there’s a good argument for that, but this particular judge has at least recognized that _something_ drastic needs to be done. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/77 "2015-08-26T16:17:39Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Well, it was **two eyes andy four eyes** who said it. But yeah, what the DoJ \*found \*was egregious. Yep, that’s what I meant. I think I said it that way too (“the findings were egregious”). ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/78 "2015-08-26T16:51:16Z")
> [@andros](#): > > [Read some highlights](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/03/04/the-12-key-highlights-from-the-dojs-scathing-ferguson-report/) and then see if you have the same question. Seems like racial profiling ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/79 "2015-08-26T17:32:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And you don’t see problems with forcing a large group of people to go off the books like that? I would expect without knowing that many or most of the people who didn’t pay their traffic fines are off the books in that sense already. IOW it is not “I owe $500 so I will quit my job or work off the books”, it is more that they don’t have a job or are working off the books already, and that’s part of the reason why they can’t pay their fines. Your argument that they are being “forced” to go off the books is a little strained - nobody forced anybody to drive badly or ignore their hearings. If you are arguing that, in general, poor people shouldn’t have their wages garnished, and shouldn’t be subject to arrest, and shouldn’t be expected to show up at their hearings, then that begins to converge on saying they don’t have to obey the traffic laws. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763/80 "2015-08-26T18:16:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yep, that’s what I meant. I think I said it that way too (“the findings were egregious”). Not necessarily. There are plenty of conspiracy theorists who will tell you that the findings of the Warren Commission are egregious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-judge-withdraws-all-arrest-warrants-before-2015/728763.md?page=5)