# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/181 "2014-08-14T12:09:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If they’d dispersed, they wouldn’t have been detained, as thy would no longer have been present to be detained. They were detained, therefore they were present, therefore they had not dispersed and were doing something illegal. QED. So if the police charge up to you right now - literally right at the moment you finish reading this sentence - and arrest you, you were therefore doing something illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/182 "2014-08-14T12:45:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So if the police charge up to you right now - literally right at the moment you finish reading this sentence - and arrest you, you were therefore doing something illegal? No, if you’re posting in a public place, the police order you to leave, and you refuse, claiming you’re a journalist but refusing to show your ID, then you are obstructing the police, which is illegal. Just to make your analogy actually fit. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/183 "2014-08-14T12:53:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Since they were present in an area which the police had ordered to disperse. What the hell is wrong with you? Do the police have the right to order you to “disperse” from any situation? Sitting in McDonald’s having a snack and typing on your laptop? This is America dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/184 "2014-08-14T13:00:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I mean, seriously? He kept walking, so it was his fault he got killed? That is **Smapti** -level police apoligism. Just noticed this. Of course, I never said this or anything like it. If the story as told by the cop is true, nothing was done wrong, as he was being attacked by Brown. If the story as told by Brown’s friend is true, then a terrible crime was committed and of course it wasn’t Brown’s fault he died. But it does seem that in the second case Brown could have avoided his fate by simply complying with the officer when told to stop. That’s not blaming the victim, it’s pointing out that it was avoidable. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/185 "2014-08-14T13:00:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, if you’re posting in a public place, the police order you to leave, and you refuse, claiming you’re a journalist but refusing to show your ID, then you are obstructing the police, which is illegal. > > Just to make your analogy actually fit. Can you cite a law whereby citizens must show IDs to police on demand? Are we supposed to carry papers with us like in Nazi Germany? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/186 "2014-08-14T13:02:04Z")
That is America. You didn’t know? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/187 "2014-08-14T13:02:44Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > What the hell is wrong with you? Do the police have the right to order you to “disperse” from any situation? Sitting in McDonald’s having a snack and typing on your laptop? This is America dammit. It’s a McDonald’s where there has been a riot every night this week. Serious question: What would those of you who think the cops are out of control have them do? Should they let the crowd throw Molotov cocktails until their arms get tired every night? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/188 "2014-08-14T13:06:37Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s a McDonald’s where there has been a riot every night this week. > > Serious question: What would those of you who think the cops are out of control have them do? Should they let the crowd throw Molotov cocktails until their arms get tired every night? Cite? The article I read had the reporter working at the McDonalds. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/189 "2014-08-14T13:07:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, if you’re posting in a public place, the police order you to leave, and you refuse, claiming you’re a journalist but refusing to show your ID, then you are obstructing the police, which is illegal. > > Just to make your analogy actually fit. …there is video tape right up to the point of them getting arrested that shows them complying with the police. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/190 "2014-08-14T13:08:38Z")
Would you right wingers make up your fucking minds about the police? You were all for Cliven Bundy in his standoff with police because, well because he had guns and therefore must be right. So you’re okay with armed citizens keeping law enforcement officials from collecting legally seized cattle but you’re also for police aiming sniper rifles and lobbing tear gas at unarmed citizens. If the people in Ferguson packed heat would that make you take their side? Is it whatever side brings the most weaponry that makes them right in your book? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/191 "2014-08-14T13:15:09Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Cite? The article I read had the reporter working at the McDonalds. I don’t know why you think a reporter would work at McDonald’s. The McDonald’s is right where the rioting was. The reporters were using it to charge their cell phones and equipment. [Cite](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/13/ferguson-police-race-brown-killing/14030889/) > [@](#): > > Journalists in the St. Louis suburb to cover the fray wound up being part of the story when two were detained at a McDonald’s restaurant where members of the media were charging cellphones and writing. I also note from that same article that the police only seem to be aggressive towards people rioting, not people protesting. Rioting: > [@](#): > > Throughout the city on Wednesday, dozens of officers set up barricades, blocking most main roads. As the sun set, the loud flash of grenades and the whir of helicopters filled the area. Tear gas was dispersed, so much that the stinging air lingered for hours. > > Members of the crowd hurled Molotov cocktails and other objects at police, according to the Associated Press. Protesting: > [@](#): > > A crowd of about 100 people gathered outside the Ferguson Police Station at midnight. Protesters screamed now-familiar chants of those moved by the death of Brown: “No justice, no peace,” “What if this was your child?” and “Hands up, don’t shoot.” > > Added to those were: “Hey, hey. Hey, ho. These killer cops have got to go.” > > The scene, without tear gas and police in riot gear, was much calmer than earlier demonstrations. People mainly stood around holding signs while a group played the drums outside a Ferguson Fire Station across the street So it’s not like people in this thread seem to be claiming. The cops aren’t shooting tear gas at anyone who gathers or protests. It’s when the Molotov cocktails start flying that the tear gas comes out. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/192 "2014-08-14T13:17:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Can you cite a law whereby citizens must show IDs to police on demand? Are we supposed to carry papers with us like in Nazi Germany? If you want to claim an exception to the police telling you to move based on you being a journalist, yes you show your fucking papers. And it doesn’t matter whether the police have the right to tell you to do something, or to arrest you. You go along with it - if you don’t you’re still breaking the law. Then, you challenge it later. Jesus. Do you really still wonder why the police sometimes overreact, when you and others are here exhorting people to ignore or resist them? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/193 "2014-08-14T13:18:39Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > As to a curfew, can anybody share the straight dope on that? A curfew at night makes perfect sense in a case where there’s rioting every night. But if the police don’t have the right to instate one who does? How’s that work? No one has an answer for this? The posters adamantly claiming that the police have no right to instate a curfew were just voicing an opinion? Or was this based on some actual law? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/194 "2014-08-14T13:18:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > So it’s not like people in this thread seem to be claiming. The cops aren’t shooting tear gas at anyone who gathers or protests. It’s when the Molotov cocktails start flying that the tear gas comes out. Stop trying to confuse people with facts, you’ll only upset the poor dears. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/195 "2014-08-14T13:24:40Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I don’t know why you think a reporter would work at McDonald’s. > > The McDonald’s is right where the rioting was. The reporters were using it to charge their cell phones and equipment. > > [Cite](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/13/ferguson-police-race-brown-killing/14030889/) > > I also note from that same article that the police only seem to be aggressive towards people rioting, not people protesting. > > Rioting: > > Protesting: > > So it’s not like people in this thread seem to be claiming. The cops aren’t shooting tear gas at anyone who gathers or protests. It’s when the Molotov cocktails start flying that the tear gas comes out. I couldn’t find the article I read. I assumed he was working part-time as a journalist; only getting paid when an article gets published. In retrospect, I think it was just bad writing. When they said he was working there, they must have meant as a journalist, and not as a McDonald’s employee. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/196 "2014-08-14T13:28:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would you right wingers make up your fucking minds about the police? You were all for Cliven Bundy in his standoff with police because, well because he had guns and therefore must be right. So you’re okay with armed citizens keeping law enforcement officials from collecting legally seized cattle but you’re also for police aiming sniper rifles and lobbing tear gas at unarmed citizens. If the people in Ferguson packed heat would that make you take their side? Is it whatever side brings the most weaponry that makes them right in your book? Bundy is white. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/197 "2014-08-14T13:29:13Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I don’t know why you think a reporter would work at McDonald’s. > > The McDonald’s is right where the rioting was. The reporters were using it to charge their cell phones and equipment. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/198 "2014-08-14T13:34:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s a McDonald’s where there has been a riot every night this week. …one mans riot is another mans protest. That McDonalds looked pretty good if there had been a riot in there every day. > [@](#): > > So it’s not like people in this thread seem to be claiming. The cops aren’t shooting tear gas at anyone who gathers or protests. It’s when the Molotov cocktails start flying that the tear gas comes out. [I don’t see any molotov cocktails here.](http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/police_in_ferguson_fire_tear_gas_on_protesters_with_hands_up_in_their_own_backyard.php) I don’t think that these reporters[threw any molotov cocktails.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=720_l3dgbYA) [Not seeing any here either.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5sRrzKG4-8)[Don’t see any getting thrown here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVrziJOe5x0) Nearly everyone has a cellphone camera. Nearly every use of tear gas has been put online. Haven’t seen a single molotov cocktail. I will concede the possibility molotov cocktails may have been thrown at the police. But I find your claim that tear gas only comes out when the Molotov cocktails start flying hard to believe: and so please provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/199 "2014-08-14T13:35:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Were the situation reversed, you can bet that white-skinned red-necked racist assholes would be looting and stealing with both hands. Really? [No rioting or looting here.](http://www.texasgopvote.com/issues/restore-families/justice-james-black-cop-shoots-unarmed-white-veteran-orange-tx-over-racial-slur-0057061) [Nor here.](http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/07/black-neighborhood-watchman-kills-white-teen-boy-the-black-george-zimmerman-youre-not-allowed-to-know-about-2537178.html) [And amazingly, no redneck rioting here.](http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1149046) Thanks for playing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/200 "2014-08-14T13:37:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Stop trying to confuse people with facts, you’ll only upset the poor dears. …if you think that what he said was “fact”, then perhaps you could provide a cite for Debaser’s assertion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=11)