# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2081 "2014-08-24T19:36:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because – unlike Wilson’s work history – that would be completely irrelevant to the story. And how many times Wilson’s mother got divorced is relevant? Did you even read that article? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2082 "2014-08-24T20:09:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I find it hilarious that you were advancing your understanding of elucidator in the last paragraph and admitting that you didn’t quite get his meaning in this one. I find it hilarious you think “symantically null” means “ambiguous in tone”. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2083 "2014-08-24T20:26:00Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Are these ‘armchair constables’ empowered to take disciplinary action against cops, > [@Grumman](#): > > Isn’t that an accurate description of the mindset that makes people throw Molotov cocktails at police? First, you seem to misunderstand what ‘empowered’ means. Unless you believe throwing burning gasoline bombs is legal. Second, how many Molotov cocktails have been lobbed in protest of the Kajieme Powell shooting? Sure there’s debate over the justification, and anger over police protocol that doesn’t even attempt a nonlethal response, but there’s no great social unrest over the shooting, because there’s a video of the incident showing Powell’s instability. How much more effective might that video have been at presenting the reality of the confrontation if it were a cop’s-eye-view? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2084 "2014-08-24T20:57:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And how many times Wilson’s mother got divorced is relevant? Did you even read that article? How many times did she get divorced? Tell us what the article says. Then quote the part of the article where it said it was relevant to the shooting. We’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2085 "2014-08-24T21:01:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > How many times did she get divorced? Tell us what the article says. Then quote the part of the article where it said it was relevant to the shooting. We’ll wait. This was my post: “The smear machine is out in full force. Do you think WaPo would ever put out an article documenting how many times Brown’s mother got divorced (or if she was married at all)? And if not, why not?” BrainGlutton intimated that WaPo would not print that about Brown’s mother because it is not relevant to the shooting. Yet they printed that about Wilson’s mother, even though it is not relevant to the shooting. So - why one and not the other? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2086 "2014-08-24T21:04:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > How is Wilson’s work history relevant? He could have murdered 50 people in his last job, and still have been acting in self defence here. Sure, but if we’re trying to choose which of various stories we believe, previous actions by the participants are completely relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2087 "2014-08-24T21:20:02Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I find it hilarious you think “symantically null” means “ambiguous in tone”. All right, fair point. It was not semantically null. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2088 "2014-08-24T21:27:53Z")
**Terr** , honest question: Do people consider you a complete dick in real life? Or is it just online? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2089 "2014-08-24T22:01:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The smear machine is out in full force. Do you think WaPo would ever put out an article documenting how many times Brown’s mother got divorced (or if she was married at all)? And if not, why not? [Here is an article that mentions that Michael Brown’s mother is divorced from his father, Michael Brown Sr., and is remarried to Louis Head.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723299/If-I-leave-earth-today-youll-know-I-care-damn-self-The-haunting-Facebook-message-gentle-giant-teen-days-shot-cop-sparking-St-Louis-riots.html) Feel better now? It’s not relevant to the legal aspects of the case, and it’s not a smear to be divorced, or have divorced parents. I think you are just frustrated that there hasn’t been any real dirt dug up for Brown or his family (and you know your friends at the treehouse have been frantically digging). Other than the incident in the store just before he was shot, he appears to have been an average teenager; not overly ambitious or academically inclined, but certainly not a “thug”. He died too young to say what kind of man he would have become. Same for Wilson’s personal past history, as far as we know now. The only real dirt in this story are the problems with the Ferguson police force. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2090 "2014-08-24T22:12:20Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Other than the incident in the store just before he was shot, he appears to have been an average teenager … That’s pretty funny. Other than the iceberg, the Titanic’s voyage really wasn’t so bad either. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2091 "2014-08-24T22:16:15Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Sure, but if we’re trying to choose which of various stories we believe, previous actions by the participants are completely relevant. Nope, not even slightly. Not when it comes to someone having been accused of a crime. Then we go by evidence. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2092 "2014-08-24T23:03:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Nope, not even slightly. Not when it comes to someone having been accused of a crime. Then we go by evidence. Wilson will be tried, or not, in a court of law. But the whole business, which goes way beyond his guilt or innocence, is being and will and should be tried in the court of public opinion, where rules of evidence are looser. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2093 "2014-08-24T23:08:08Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > That’s pretty funny. Other than the iceberg, the Titanic’s voyage really wasn’t so bad either. Maybe. I’ll give you this: The Titanic was thought to be unsinkable, which of course turned out to be wrong. But that thinking meant that they were unprepared for the tragic consequences of hitting the iceberg. Teenagers can think this way as well. I know: Legally he was a man, physically he was a man. Mentally and emotionally? I doubt it. I worked with teenagers. They can do stupid things, sometimes with tragic consequences they are unprepared to deal with. Especially so if they are male, and even more so if they are Black males. I don’t know the whole story, so that is just my guess as to why he did what he did (again, presuming it went down as it appeared). If he had been apprehended alive, and there was enough evidence to convict him, I’d be fine with that. Honestly, my take on the whole thing is that he did something stupid, and then encountered Wilson, and they both had attitude, which escalated the situation. Don’t know if Wilson was legally justified or not, and not sure if there will be enough evidence to determine that. Wait and see. But my original point (to **Terr** ) still stands. It appears to have been an anomaly within his overall history. If you disagree, please bring evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2094 "2014-08-24T23:20:24Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Teenagers can think this way as well. I know: Legally he was a man, physically he was a man. Mentally and emotionally? I doubt it. I worked with teenagers. They can do stupid things, sometimes with tragic consequences they are unprepared to deal with. Especially so if they are male, and even more so if they are Black males. Indeed, adolescence fucks with brain chemistry to an extent that it actually hinders rational decision making, risk evaluation, etc. Adolescents are by nature suffering from diminished mental capacity in several respects. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2095 "2014-08-24T23:25:43Z")
This Cracked article says something about this — [5 Ways High School Really Does Suck (According to Science) | Cracked.com](http://www.cracked.com/article_20146_5-ways-high-school-really-does-suck-according-to-science.html) — > [@](#): > > **#5. Teen Brains Haven’t Developed to Fully Understand Risk and Reward** > > … the teenage brain is hardwired to make it crave what adults write off as “idiocy.” It’s not that the teenage brain doesn’t understand risk; when teenagers look at a dangerous situation – say, riding a shopping cart down a steep hill flanked by cacti – they know that there’s a risk of winding up in the emergency room having barbs removed from their asses. But whereas an adult is likely to consider this an unacceptable risk, teens consistently put more weight on the possible positive outcomes, like impressing everyone and getting laid. > > That’s because, by design, the teenage brain is built in such a way that impressing other people is more or less the prime imperative, and when you combine this with the thrill of risk-taking, their brains are flooded with excitement. They literally get high off it. In general, this is a good thing for the continuation of the species since, you know, otherwise kids would never move out of their parents’ basements and into the real world full of STDs and paperwork. > > … > > **#3. The Adolescent Brain Can’t Process Multi-Step Instructions** > > … > > **#1. Teenagers Are in a Legal Minefield** ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2096 "2014-08-24T23:26:03Z")
> [@camille](#): > > [Here is an article that mentions that Michael Brown’s mother is divorced from his father, Michael Brown Sr., and is remarried to Louis Head.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723299/If-I-leave-earth-today-youll-know-I-care-damn-self-The-haunting-Facebook-message-gentle-giant-teen-days-shot-cop-sparking-St-Louis-riots.html) Feel better now? It’s not relevant to the legal aspects of the case, and it’s not a smear to be divorced, or have divorced parents. So why publish it? > [@](#): > > I think you are just frustrated that there hasn’t been any real dirt dug up for Brown or his family (and you know your friends at the treehouse have been frantically digging). A store robbery is enough “dirt”, especially one just 10 minutes before the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2097 "2014-08-24T23:43:40Z")
> [@camille](#): > > But my original point (to **Terr** ) still stands. It appears to have been an anomaly within his overall history. Perhaps it was. Perhaps that day was his worst day, one where he exercised horrible judgment and violent aggression he never did previously. Too bad for him, because that still makes him–on that day–a violent thug. Your last post is more measured, but the one I responded to, where you said, “The only real dirt in this story are the problems with the Ferguson police force,” was the silliness I responded to. Ten minutes or so before his death, Brown assaulted someone, a violent felony. That’s some mighty compelling “dirt.” Maybe his teenage brain is the source of his misjudgment, and maybe additional facts will show the assault was an irrelevancy in that the cop had no need to use deadly force. But for now, it can’t be hand-waved away as some triviality. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2098 "2014-08-25T00:01:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So why publish it? How many threads have you started or participated in about the media? How many times do you need to hear the answer? Pick one or more: It’s grist for the mill, it’s bullshit, it’s propaganda, it sells ads, it fills the 24 hour news cycle… > [@](#): > > A store robbery is enough “dirt”, especially one just 10 minutes before the incident. See above. There will never be enough dirt for some… ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2099 "2014-08-25T00:05:27Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Perhaps it was. Perhaps that day was his worst day, one where he exercised horrible judgment and violent aggression he never did previously. Too bad for him, because that still makes him–on that day–a violent thug. Your last post is more measured, but the one I responded to, where you said, “The only real dirt in this story are the problems with the Ferguson police force,” was the silliness I responded to. Ten minutes or so before his death, Brown assaulted someone, a violent felony. That’s some mighty compelling “dirt.” > > Maybe his teenage brain is the source of his misjudgment, and maybe additional facts will show the assault was an irrelevancy in that the cop had no need to use deadly force. But for now, it can’t be hand-waved away as some triviality. It was silly of me to waste time responding to you. Thanks for reminding me why. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2100 "2014-08-25T00:14:30Z")
> [@camille](#): > > It was silly of me to waste time responding to you. Thanks for reminding me why. Wow, that stings. Even so, I’ll still be a nice guy and offer you this valuable advice in parting: don’t post bullshit if you don’t want to be called on it. Unless, of course, you’re a teenager, in which case all is forgiven. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=106)