# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/201 "2014-08-14T13:39:23Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? > > [No rioting or looting here.](http://www.texasgopvote.com/issues/restore-families/justice-james-black-cop-shoots-unarmed-white-veteran-orange-tx-over-racial-slur-0057061) > > [Nor here.](http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/07/black-neighborhood-watchman-kills-white-teen-boy-the-black-george-zimmerman-youre-not-allowed-to-know-about-2537178.html) > > [And amazingly, no redneck rioting here.](http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1149046) > > Thanks for playing, though. Historically speaking, in the US, [rioting by white people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching) has been far, far more murderous and dangerous than rioting by any other group. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/202 "2014-08-14T13:39:30Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …if you think that what he said was “fact”, then perhaps you could provide a cite for Debaser’s assertion. Or, you could read his cite in the post I quote… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/203 "2014-08-14T13:40:19Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? > > [No rioting or looting here.](http://www.texasgopvote.com/issues/restore-families/justice-james-black-cop-shoots-unarmed-white-veteran-orange-tx-over-racial-slur-0057061) > > [Nor here.](http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/07/black-neighborhood-watchman-kills-white-teen-boy-the-black-george-zimmerman-youre-not-allowed-to-know-about-2537178.html) > > [And amazingly, no redneck rioting here.](http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1149046) > > Thanks for playing, though. I could only see two of these, my internet filter refused the third for “intolerance”. These are pretty poisoned wells you’re drawing from. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/204 "2014-08-14T13:42:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Or, you could read his cite in the post I quote… …the cite does not back up the assertion, and the videos that I have cited directly contradict the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/205 "2014-08-14T13:53:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I see in the news that the officer in question was injured (“facial injuries”) and treated for them. I think it’s a good idea, in general, not to fight the police. Never ends well. It may be the cop was injured, but the fact that he went to the hospital claiming injuries doesn’t show it. IME, cops tend to claim injuries in all these sorts of altercations, whether real or not. [I know of one case where a cop beat a guy up and then claimed he hurt his back in the course of doing so and went on disability leave for some time. The victim, of course, was prosecuted for resisting arrest (later settled for disorderly conduct or something minor of that sort).] ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/206 "2014-08-14T14:01:20Z")
Ferguson cops last night arrested at St. Louis Alderman, kept him overnight, and released him in the morning without telling him why they arrested him, and apparently without filing a report of the arrest, or at least without giving him any documentation of it. > **[DAY FIVE WRAPUP: McCulloch blasts Nixon for replacing St. Louis County Police...](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-alderman-released-from-jail-after-arrest-during-ferguson/article_0806541b-ed48-5d06-9267-323531ad6cf1.html)** > > The St. Louis County prosecutor said Nixon had no legal authority to bring in the Highway Patrol. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/207 "2014-08-14T14:09:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It may be the cop was injured, but the fact that he went to the hospital claiming injuries doesn’t show it. IME, cops tend to claim injuries in all these sorts of altercations, whether real or not. > > [I know of one case where a cop beat a guy up and then claimed he hurt his back in the course of doing so and went on disability leave for some time. The victim, of course, was prosecuted for resisting arrest (later settled for disorderly conduct or something minor of that sort).] It’s also not outside the realm of possibility that he could have fabricated an injury, given how fast this whole situation went south. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/208 "2014-08-14T14:16:39Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I will concede the possibility molotov cocktails may have been thrown at the police. But I find your claim that tear gas only comes out when the Molotov cocktails start flying hard to believe: and so please provide a cite. I already did. Post 191. As to your cites, I find it odd that you think a bunch of pictures that don’t include Molotov cocktails proves that they don’t exist. I have a picture with no horses in it. I offer it as proof that horses don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/209 "2014-08-14T14:22:14Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I already did. Post 191. As to your cites, I find it odd that you think a bunch of pictures that don’t include Molotov cocktails proves that they don’t exist. > > I have a picture with no horses in it. I offer it as proof that horses don’t exist. …post 191 does not come close to supporting your assertion. You’ve stated that “It’s when the Molotov cocktails start flying that the tear gas comes out.” I don’t believe that is true. Either back up your claim or do the decent thing and withdraw it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/210 "2014-08-14T14:24:16Z")
And where are all the photos of Molotov’s being thrown? Cell phone cameras all over the place, news reporters, stuff like that. I’m thinking that if you had them, you’d show them to us, yes? You don’t, then? Or just building the suspense? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/211 "2014-08-14T14:27:17Z")
There are pictures of people with Molotov cocktails. The question isn’t whether anyone had them. The question is whether “The cops aren’t shooting tear gas at anyone who gathers or protests. It’s when the Molotov cocktails start flying that the tear gas comes out.” ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/212 "2014-08-14T14:27:53Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …post 191 does not come close to supporting your assertion. You’ve stated that “It’s when the Molotov cocktails start flying that the tear gas comes out.” I don’t believe that is true. Either back up your claim or do the decent thing and withdraw it. My cite shows that people were protesting at the police station and the protest was peaceful. Thus there was no harsh response by police. My cite also shows that on the same night at a different location there were riots for the fourth night in a row where Molotov cocktails were thrown at police. In this occasion tear gas was used. Do you dispute any of these facts? What I take from these facts is that the police are responding to force with force, and not just tear gassing any crowd indiscriminately, as posters have been claiming. That’s an opinion, and one that might be wrong, but it is clearly backed up by the facts that we have from the news stories that have been cited. You disagree? Fine. You can assume the worst. But unless you have a cite contradicting this I don’t think your opinion counts for much. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/213 "2014-08-14T14:33:02Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Ferguson cops last night arrested at St. Louis Alderman, kept him overnight, and released him in the morning without telling him why they arrested him, and apparently without filing a report of the arrest, or at least without giving him any documentation of it. > > [DAY FIVE WRAPUP: McCulloch blasts Nixon for replacing St. Louis County Police control](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-alderman-released-from-jail-after-arrest-during-ferguson/article_0806541b-ed48-5d06-9267-323531ad6cf1.html) [Quote=Your cite] French said police pulled him from his car Wednesday night and arrested him because he didn’t listen to their orders to disperse. [/quote] People in Ferguson seen to be having trouble with this whole “when a cop tella you to disperse, disperse” concept. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/214 "2014-08-14T14:38:26Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > What the hell is wrong with you? Do the police have the right to order you to “disperse” from any situation? Sitting in McDonald’s having a snack and typing on your laptop? This is America dammit. Yes, they do, especially if that McDonald’s is located in a riot zone where a curfew has been imposed. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/215 "2014-08-14T14:39:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So if the police charge up to you right now - literally right at the moment you finish reading this sentence - and arrest you, you were therefore doing something illegal? They would certainly have the benefit of a doubt that they aren’t just running around and arresting people at random. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/216 "2014-08-14T14:39:48Z")
How does one person disperse, exactly? Detach an arm and throw it the other way? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/217 "2014-08-14T14:40:07Z")
For anyone who actually cares to read the reporter’s account: > **[In Ferguson, Washington Post reporter Wesley Lowery gives account of his arrest](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-ferguson-washington-post-reporter-wesley-lowery-gives-account-of-his-arrest/2014/08/13/0fe25c0e-2359-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html)** > > Wesley Lowery, in Missouri covering the aftermath of a teen’s shooting, was detained by police Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/218 "2014-08-14T14:40:30Z")
The sadness of it is that the “truth,” to the extent that it can be objectively ascertained, is mostly incidental at this point. For the dead guy and his family this was a tragic event, but for many more people, including many on this board, it’s an emblem. The people have grouped into their traditional camps, and the beliefs about What It All Represents are already solidified. Should there arise irrefutable HD video evidence showing Brown lunging for the cop’s gun, his community (and a lot of other black people across the US) will still see it as another unarmed black kid shot to death by institutionally racist police who exist only to antagonize them. If it shows Brown being harassed and assaulted by a foul-mouthed cop while minding his own business and being shot without provocation, then Brown is to still ultimately to blame for his own death, because [pick a reason: should’ve obeyed the cop’s barked orders more quickly, shouldn’t have been walking in the street in his own neighborhood in the first place, was probably up to no good and on his way home to mix up a batch of purple drank, should’ve understood the pressure that police are under dealing with his kind of people day in and day out, etc.] People want answers, but they don’t, not really. The narrative is already written. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/219 "2014-08-14T14:41:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How in the fuck do you seriously not see how wrong the police are behaving? You don’t fucking point sniper rifles at citizens doing nothing more than sitting in a protest. You don’t arrest people for no charge, beat the fuck out of them, spray tear gas into neighborhoods, and shoot unarmed teenagers and claim to be enforcing law and order. It’s a good thing none of that is happening, then. > [@](#): > > If you were in Poland in the 1940s, you probably would have fucking cheered as the Nazis emptied out the Jewish ghettos. If I were in Poland in the 1940s, I wouldn’t be me - I’d be a different person with a different set of life experiences and loyalties, and as such it’s pointless for me to speculate on what that person might do. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/220 "2014-08-14T14:46:12Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The sadness of it is that the “truth,” to the extent that it can be objectively ascertained, is mostly incidental at this point. For the dead guy and his family this was a tragic event, but for many more people, including many on this board, it’s an emblem. The people have grouped into their traditional camps, and the beliefs about What It All Represents are already solidified. Should there arise irrefutable HD video evidence showing Brown lunging for the cop’s gun, his community (and a lot of other black people across the US) will still see it as another unarmed black kid shot to death by institutionally racist police who exist only to antagonize them. If it shows Brown being harassed and assaulted by a foul-mouthed cop while minding his own business and being shot without provocation, then Brown is to still ultimately to blame for his own death, because [pick a reason: should’ve obeyed the cop’s barked orders more quickly, shouldn’t have been walking in the street in his own neighborhood in the first place, was probably up to no good and on his way home to mix up a batch of purple drank, should’ve understood the pressure that police are under dealing with his kind of people day in and day out, etc.] This is true of a lot of people. But there are also other people who are more open to looking at the details of the case. Thing is that members of the first group tend to be more passionate about the issues, so they tend to be overrepresented in discussions about it (including on this MB). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=12)