# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 119
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2361 "2014-08-27T22:14:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > And what would the harm have been to retreat to the squad car, call for backup, and let say four cops in armored vests and helmets tackle the guy? The bad guy might get away to commit more crimes and one, or more, of the officers might have been injured (and filed a workman’s comp claim) or killed. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2362 "2014-08-27T22:26:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No, the coward is the guy that shoots to kill when he doesn’t need to. But no-one’s been talking about those times, we’ve been talking about the times when someone’s been attacked or threatened with attack. If anyone’s a coward, it’s the person unwilling to defend himself or others from attack. What, exactly, do you think is wrong with protecting yourself or your loved ones? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2363 "2014-08-27T22:27:35Z")
The most interesting commentary I’ve seen (from the left) is that the Ferguson police force should be much blacker, so as to better serve the black population. And they should vote in more black politicans and so on. I’m not saying that’s incorrect. It’s interesting because that’s the same logic white nationalists and racial separatists use. People want to have self determination, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2364 "2014-08-27T22:45:32Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Except of course there isn’t, as there are thousands of interactions between cops and people (even black people!) every day which do NOT result in anyone dying. > > There are plenty of meaningful criticisms of the way the cops interact with the public without having to result to ridiculous straw men and exaggerations. But if we stopped posting ridiculous straw men and exaggerations BobLibDem wouldn’t have anything to say! Can’t have that. Slee ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2365 "2014-08-28T03:54:05Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The most interesting commentary I’ve seen (from the left) is that the Ferguson police force should be much blacker, so as to better serve the black population. And they should vote in more black politicans and so on. I’m not saying that’s incorrect. It’s interesting because that’s the same logic white nationalists and racial separatists use. People want to have self determination, ya know? It’s hardly the same logic at all. White nationalists aren’t saying “I want as many white people in congress as would be appropriate purely based on national population averages”. It would be silly to want that, they already HAVE that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2366 "2014-08-28T04:48:16Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > It’s hardly the same logic at all. White nationalists aren’t saying “I want as many white people in congress as would be appropriate purely based on national population averages”. It would be silly to want that, they already HAVE that. It’s very much the same logic. It carries the insinuation that white politicians are incapable of acting in the bet interests of black citizens, and that blacks can only receive a fair shake from " their own kind". It’s the same kind of logic coming from white nationalists these days about Obama being an illegitimaye president because of his race, and it’s patently false. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2367 "2014-08-28T05:02:31Z")
Holy crap, the police ran over the memorial Brown’s mother laid at the place where he was shot?! Good grief, does ANYONE there care, at the _least_, about optics?! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2368 "2014-08-28T05:33:32Z")
Did they leave out the part about letting the police dog piss on it? Nice touch. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2369 "2014-08-28T05:51:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s very much the same logic. It carries the insinuation that white politicians are incapable of acting in the bet interests of black citizens, and that blacks can only receive a fair shake from " their own kind". It’s the same kind of logic coming from white nationalists these days about Obama being an illegitimaye president because of his race, and it’s patently false. It’s not the same logic. “Black” in this context means “members of the poor black community of Ferguson.” It’s lazy and somewhat racist shorthand, but once you get past that and decode it, the sentiment is logical and correct. No one is advocating importing an all-black police force from, say, Nigeria. Conversely, when white-power movements want more white power, they mean _white_. They’d be happy to join up with pure aryans from whatever countries they consider the original of the “true” white race; anything is better than those coloreds. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2370 "2014-08-28T08:03:03Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > “Black” in this context means “members of the poor black community of Ferguson.” It’s lazy and somewhat racist shorthand, but once you get past that and decode it, the sentiment is logical and correct. Except that it’s not. Remember when we were assured two weeks ago that the riots would end forthwith because the Highway Patrol officer taking over was a black guy from Ferguson? And how the riots on the nights of the 15th and 16th were worse than they’d been before? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2371 "2014-08-28T08:04:16Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Holy crap, the police ran over the memorial Brown’s mother laid at the place where he was shot?! > > Good grief, does ANYONE there care, at the _least_, about optics?! Technically, they _could_ have cited her for littering, so it could be worse. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2372 "2014-08-28T12:13:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Technically, they _could_ have cited her for littering, so it could be worse. Trooooooooool. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2373 "2014-08-28T12:37:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Technically, they _could_ have cited her for littering, so it could be worse. Technically, they could’ve cited her, claimed she was uncooperative and lunged at an officer, and reunited her with her son. So yeah, could be worse. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2374 "2014-08-28T13:31:21Z")
I think she has to rob a store and assault a clerk and a cop first. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2375 "2014-08-28T14:09:50Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > You moved the goalpost a bit, possibly without realizing it. You’re a bit confused about the order of the posts. My post was responding to a call for a cite that “The majority of Americans have possessed a controlled substance.” I realize that first-time marijuana possession is a misdemeanor, which is why I said that the penalty is one year–to make clear that I wasn’t trying to hide the ball. It was not to a response to a question about my overall assertion concerning felonies. And as I noted in that post, the Pew survey is just a quick and dirty look. There is better data out there. A smarter look at the other question of felony prevalence would have to estimate how many older people might have used marijuana before it was made illegal, for example. Conversely, you’d have to estimate how many had used marijuana three times (which does get you to felony territory). And, of course, you would need to look at usage of other controlled substances, and the rates of the other crimes like drunk driving. If enough people are interested in this question, I’m happy to more thoroughly support my argument that a majority of Americans have likely committed felonies. I’ve never run the numbers thoroughly, and it does require some assumptions about how much overlap between individuals there are. If all the people who have committed felony copyright infringement (which does not require commercial use, btw), are co-extensive with the many millions who have driven over the legal limit or smoked pot three times, then we might find ourselves under 50%. But I doubt it. As an aside, you rely on the White House over Pew for reasons that are unclear to me. The SAMSHA data, which is the most comprehensive data we have, contradicts the White House anti-drug narrative, which should not be surprising since ONDCP and SAMSHA have quite different agendas. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2376 "2014-08-28T14:24:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think she has to rob a store and assault a clerk and a cop first. > > Regards, > Shodan No rush, they can accuse her of those things after she’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2377 "2014-08-28T14:33:53Z")
[Fascinating analysis of the RW media treatment.](http://www.salon.com/2014/08/28/fox_news_is_tearing_us_apart_race_baiting_and_divisiveness_hits_disgusting_new_low/) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2378 "2014-08-28T14:38:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > It’s hardly the same logic at all. White nationalists aren’t saying “I want as many white people in congress as would be appropriate purely based on national population averages”. It would be silly to want that, they already HAVE that. You are conflating two separate issues. [ol] [li]The notion that the percentage of blacks and whites in positions of power should roughly parallel their percentages in the population as a whole.[/li][li]The notion that the people in positions of power in a given city or district should be of the same “race” as the majority of that district.[/li][/ol] The first of these is what you’re referring to. The second is what you hear a lot of people mentioning in the context of the Ferguson situation and elsewhere, and what marshmellow was referring to. This logic would also result in zero minority US Senators, not to mention presidents, and is obviously beloved by white nationalists. [FYI, the correct and proper PC response to this issue is not what you said. Rather, it’s that unlike white people who are privileged and whose issues - to the extent that they have any - are widely known and shared by everybody, minorities have unique issues and needs which are not appreciated by white people, so they need to be represented by their own. And frankly there is some truth to this. Although IMO it’s an opening that gets stretched a lot.] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2379 "2014-08-28T14:53:50Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > If enough people are interested in this question, I’m happy to more thoroughly support my argument that a majority of Americans have likely committed felonies. I am very interested in seeing such support. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2380 "2014-08-28T14:55:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Fascinating analysis of the RW media treatment.](http://www.salon.com/2014/08/28/fox_news_is_tearing_us_apart_race_baiting_and_divisiveness_hits_disgusting_new_low/) The Conservative support for the police officer is a reaction to the angelization of the “gentle Giant”, “too timid even to play football”, “he was just walking to his grandmother” thug. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=118) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=120)