# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 121
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2401 "2014-08-30T17:08:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why, no, actually. All it confirms is that there was a series of gunshots in rapid succession at a particular time. In America, that could be _anywhere_ at 12:02:14 PM CDT. What about GPS on the phone? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2402 "2014-08-30T17:32:08Z")
That could narrow it down considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2403 "2014-08-30T18:42:37Z")
I’m sure evidence that someone fired a gun at the time Brown was shot is just the breakthrough this case needed. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2404 "2014-08-30T18:45:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m sure evidence that someone fired a gun at the time Brown was shot is just the breakthrough this case needed. trolololol ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2405 "2014-09-03T15:09:11Z")
It appears that the media is pushing for the release of Brown’s juvenile records. I can’t think of any reason why the court would not release the deceased Brown’s records. Will the release help or hurt Brown’s character? Will the release effect the opinions of possible future jurors? idk. \*Lawsuits seek Ferguson victim’s juvenile records - By ALAN SCHER ZAGIER The Associated Press CLAYTON, Mo. — Lingering questions about Michael Brown could be answered Wednesday when a judge considers two media requests to release any possible juvenile records of the unarmed 18-year-old who was killed by a Missouri police officer last month. Juvenile records are confidential in Missouri, so it’s not known if Brown was arrested before he legally became an adult. Police have said Brown had no adult criminal record. The family’s attorney, Benjamin Crump, has refused to discuss whether Brown had a juvenile record. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch and a California online journalist asked St. Louis County Family Court to determine whether Brown had past legal trouble. Both cite an overriding public right to know Brown’s background after his shooting death by Ferguson officer Darren Wilson sparked more than a week of sometimes-violent protests and drew international scrutiny. The more basic argument boils down to the question of whether Brown’s privacy rights extend beyond the grave.\* [http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/general/lawsuits-seek-any-michael-brown-juvenile-records/nhD53/](http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/general/lawsuits-seek-any-michael-brown-juvenile-records/nhD53/) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2406 "2014-09-03T15:52:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I can’t think of any reason why the court would not release the deceased Brown’s records. You can’t? How about because they’re irrelevant? And also, someone recently pointed out that such a release could bias the case somehow. Hmm. Who was that? Who could it have been? Oh! I remember now! It was _the rest of your paragraph._ > [@doorhinge](#): > > Will the release help or hurt Brown’s character? Will the release effect the opinions of possible future jurors? idk. Ain’t enough :rolleyes: in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2407 "2014-09-03T16:25:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Will the release help or hurt Brown’s character? I can’t see how it can help. Either he has a juvenile record, which would tend to disprove this “gentle giant” thing, or he hasn’t, in which case he was ten minutes off of robbing a store and assaulting a clerk. And for that matter, fifteen seconds past punching a cop in the face (apparently) for yelling at him for blocking traffic by walking down the middle of the street. So either way, he was not the innocent future air conditioner repairman, tripping lightly down the street on his way to a bright future. IOW the inflammatory nature would outweigh the probative, even outside a court of law. That doesn’t mean his shooting was justified (or unjustified). His juvie record, if any, is sort of beside the point. Maybe he was shot out of cold-blooded racism, maybe he was shot because the cop couldn’'t see thru his damaged eye that he was standing still, maybe he was charging the officer. We don’t know as of yet, and likely never will know for certain. But whether he spent every waking moment from age twelve to age sixteen boosting cars or working with underprivileged stray kitties doesn’t matter all that much. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2408 "2014-09-03T17:03:03Z")
> **[Michael Brown Killing: Video Mashup Of Witness Statements, Audio Of Shots](https://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/michael-brown-killing-video-mashup-witness)** > > This new montage combines witness interviews with the audio of the shots to demonstrate how the accounts align. Our good friends at _Crooks and Liars_ offer this comparison with the audio recording. There are any number of sites that offer the audio, but this will do. It also offers a comparison between several eyewitness accounts and the audio. It lays to rest several unfortunate insinuations about the professionalism and caution instilled in the Ferguson Police Dept. training regime. Note that all ten shots are fired in the space of about ten seconds…six, then one, then a pause and four more. What a testimonial! So much for the “blazing away in panic” scenario! Clearly, the officer carefully measured his actions, in several instances taking as long as half a second between shots! No doubt erring on the side of caution! And since this all took place in a residential neighborhood, surrounded by apartment buildings, we can be reasssured that those four shots that did not end up in corpse of the young Mr Brown were carefully cleared, so that no innocent standers-by were endangered! Superb training and discipline, we can be certain! We can probably surmise that the last shot, and the one just before it, were the fatal wounds, both being head shots. And that the last shot, following the penultimate, was carefully measured and considered, as it entered the top of Mr Brown’s head, as he must have been falling forward. Facing the officer. Then, of course, facing the pavement. All in all, a glowing tribute to the professionalism and rigorous training of the Ferguson Police! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2409 "2014-09-03T17:26:36Z")
Part of the reason the uproar in Ferguson has died down a bit is that the PD and the state [simply ran out of tear gas and pepper spray.](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_8ada1a79-fc18-509b-884e-4932b8d9a613.html?mobile_touch=true) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2410 "2014-09-03T18:16:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Part of the reason the uproar in Ferguson has died down a bit is that the PD and the state [simply ran out of tear gas and pepper spray.](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_8ada1a79-fc18-509b-884e-4932b8d9a613.html?mobile_touch=true) Such sad news. Makes you weep, doesn’t it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2411 "2014-09-03T18:32:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Part of the reason the uproar in Ferguson has died down a bit is that the PD and the state [simply ran out of tear gas and pepper spray.](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_8ada1a79-fc18-509b-884e-4932b8d9a613.html?mobile_touch=true) From the article: > [@](#): > > St. Louis County so far has spent about $1 million in police overtime responding to Ferguson, Chief Operating Officer Garry Earls said. So the police shoot an unarmed teenager to death and then they profit from it? I’m not sure we’re giving them the proper incentives here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2412 "2014-09-03T21:51:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It appears that the media is pushing for the release of Brown’s juvenile records. I can’t think of any reason why the court would not release the deceased Brown’s records. Will the release help or hurt Brown’s character? Will the release effect the opinions of possible future jurors? idk. > > \*Lawsuits seek Ferguson victim’s juvenile records - > By ALAN SCHER ZAGIER > The Associated Press > CLAYTON, Mo. — > Lingering questions about Michael Brown could be answered Wednesday when a judge considers two media requests to release any possible juvenile records of the unarmed 18-year-old who was killed by a Missouri police officer last month. > > Juvenile records are confidential in Missouri, so it’s not known if Brown was arrested before he legally became an adult. Police have said Brown had no adult criminal record. The family’s attorney, Benjamin Crump, has refused to discuss whether Brown had a juvenile record. > > The St. Louis Post-Dispatch and a California online journalist asked St. Louis County Family Court to determine whether Brown had past legal trouble. Both cite an overriding public right to know Brown’s background after his shooting death by Ferguson officer Darren Wilson sparked more than a week of sometimes-violent protests and drew international scrutiny. > > The more basic argument boils down to the question of whether Brown’s privacy rights extend beyond the grave.\* > > [http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/general/lawsuits-seek-any-michael-brown-juvenile-records/nhD53/](http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/general/lawsuits-seek-any-michael-brown-juvenile-records/nhD53/) And this just in… From our good friends at _Talking Points Memo…_ > **[Reports: Michael Brown Had No Serious Felony Convictions As A Juvenile](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/michael-brown-felony-convictions-juvenile)** > > A Missouri court official said Wednesday that Michael Brown was never convicted of a top felony as a juvenile, according to multiple media reports. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch and conservative… **Reports: Michael Brown Had No Serious Felony Convictions As A Juvenile** > [@](#): > > A Missouri court official said Wednesday that Michael Brown was never convicted of a top felony as a juvenile, according to multiple media reports. > > The St. Louis Post-Dispatch and conservative journalist Charles C. Johnson each asked a judge Wednesday to release the potential juvenile records for Brown, the unarmed black 18-year-old who was fatally shot by a white police officer last month in Ferguson, Mo. … > > While the St. Louis County Circuit Court has yet to release any of Brown’s records, if there were any, a court official apparently divulged a few clues during a hearing about the matter on Wednesday. > > NBC’s Tracy Connor and the Post-Dispatch’s Jeremy Kohler each reported that Brown was never convicted of a Class-A or Class-B felony as a juvenile, nor was he facing any such charges at the time of his death on Aug. 9. > > Class-A felonies include second-degree murder… > > That type of crime has been a question on the right in the aftermath of Brown’s death because Johnson said he had uncovered revelations about Brown’s past. > > In a tweet last month, Johnson said he “[c]onfirmed an earlier report” that Brown “had juvenile arrest record involving second degree murder.”… ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2413 "2014-09-03T21:58:23Z")
So, one guy claims there was an arrest and another guy denies there was a conviction. OK. Not that I would put much stock in this type of rumor at this time, but I don’t see this denial as adding anything. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2414 "2014-09-03T21:59:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this just in… > > From our good friends at _Talking Points Memo…_ > > [Reports: Michael Brown Had No Serious Felony Convictions As A Juvenile - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/michael-brown-felony-convictions-juvenile) > > **Reports: Michael Brown Had No Serious Felony Convictions As A Juvenile** So this Charles Johnson guy seems to have liabled Michael Brown. Can the family sue him for his libelous statements, or is he safe now that Brown is dead? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2415 "2014-09-03T22:18:31Z")
Don’t know. TG, IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2416 "2014-09-03T22:19:42Z")
I’m not a lawyer either, but I can figure out the difference between an arrest and a conviction. You don’t need law school for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2417 "2014-09-03T22:22:20Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not a lawyer either, but I can figure out the difference between an arrest and a conviction. You don’t need law school for that one. Yeah, I know that one too–an innocent person can be arrested. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2418 "2014-09-03T22:24:58Z")
Well… convicted too, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2419 "2014-09-03T22:25:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yeah, I know that one too–an innocent person can be arrested. If you know that, then you shouldn’t be carrying on about slander. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2420 "2014-09-03T22:29:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If you know that, then you shouldn’t be carrying on about slander. Ummm…I read the tweet, which says > [@](#): > > “Story is either #DarrenWilson gunned down an innocent choir boy or, after an altercation w/ a gang member, killed him.” Note the absense of the word “accused” or the phrase “arrested for” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=120) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=122)