# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2421 "2014-09-03T23:34:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Ummm…I read the tweet, which says Note the absense of the word “accused” or the phrase “arrested for” Yeah, I realize my mistake. Disregard post. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2422 "2014-09-04T01:04:43Z")
I don’t think the history of the cop or the teenager is very important. But, since the attorney specified there had been no convictions on Class A or B felonies, here’s a short description of Missouri felony categories: Class A felonies include murder, first degree kidnapping, forcible rape of a child under twelve years old, first degree robbery, and some drug crimes. Class B felonies in Missouri include voluntary manslaughter and first degree burglary. Class C felonies can include involuntary manslaughter in the first degree (can be a Class B or Class C felony), statutory rape in the second degree, possession of a controlled substance, and theft. Class D felonies are crimes such as fraud, resisting arrest, and passing a bad check. From [here.](http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/felony-offense/missouri-felony-class.htm) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2423 "2014-09-04T01:16:25Z")
> [@andros](#): > > You can’t? How about because they’re irrelevant? (post shortened) Irrelevant to whom? It was the media who requested that the court release Brown’s juvenile records. The media must think that it’s relevant. At least to their advertisers. Will it have any effect on the pending criminal case against the officer? Probably not. The judge has not released Brown’s juvenile records but did answer some questions about some of the things that were not listed in Brown’s records. The decision concerning full disclosure is still pending. \*…Judge Ellen Levy Siwack did not indicate how long she would take before releasing a ruling. Also on Wednesday, a grand jury was scheduled to meet for the third time since Brown’s death to consider evidence in a possible criminal case. The U.S. Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division also is investigating the police shooting\*. [http://www.nbc12.com/story/26432931/lawyer-brown-never-charged-with-serious-felony](http://www.nbc12.com/story/26432931/lawyer-brown-never-charged-with-serious-felony) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2424 "2014-09-04T01:22:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …it lays to rest several unfortunate insinuations about the professionalism and caution instilled in the ferguson police dept. Training regime. Note that all ten shots are fired in the space of about ten seconds…six, then one, then a pause and four more. Doesn’t 6 + 1 + 4 = 11. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2425 "2014-09-04T01:50:04Z")
If it were possible for me to make a dumb mistake, that would be it. However, since no apparent rip in the fabric of space/time has been noted… ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2426 "2014-09-04T02:33:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > … > It lays to rest several unfortunate insinuations about the professionalism and caution instilled in the Ferguson Police Dept. training regime. Note that all ten shots are fired in the space of about ten seconds…six, then one, then a pause and four more. > > What a testimonial! So much for the “blazing away in panic” scenario! Clearly, the officer carefully measured his actions, in several instances taking as long as half a second between shots! No doubt erring on the side of caution! And since this all took place in a residential neighborhood, surrounded by apartment buildings, we can be reasssured that those four shots that did not end up in corpse of the young Mr Brown were carefully cleared, so that no innocent standers-by were endangered! Superb training and discipline, we can be certain! > … FWIW, the hit rate is actually much higher than average for officer involved shootings. [NYPD stats show](http://nation.time.com/2013/09/16/ready-fire-aim-the-science-behind-police-shooting-bystanders/) 18% hit rate if suspect is shooting back and 30% if not. Apparently their rate is [comparable to](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/nyregion/08nypd.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) other major departments. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2427 "2014-09-04T02:39:52Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > I don’t think the history of the cop or the teenager is very important. But, since the attorney specified there had been no convictions on Class A or B felonies, here’s a short description of Missouri felony categories: > > Class A felonies include murder, first degree kidnapping, forcible rape of a child under twelve years old, first degree robbery, and some drug crimes. > > Class B felonies in Missouri include voluntary manslaughter and first degree burglary. > > Class C felonies can include involuntary manslaughter in the first degree (can be a Class B or Class C felony), statutory rape in the second degree, possession of a controlled substance, and theft. > > Class D felonies are crimes such as fraud, resisting arrest, and passing a bad check. > > From [here.](http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/felony-offense/missouri-felony-class.htm) Interesting wording “Brown was never convicted of a Class-A or Class-B felony as a juvenile”. Why specify what he was NOT convicted of? If he didn’t have a juvenile record, you could just say he didn’t have it. If he was never convicted of any felony, you could just say so outright. The wording kinda implies that he was convicted of a felony, just not class A or B… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2428 "2014-09-04T12:40:01Z")
I wonder if the lawyer phrased it that way because he was weaseling, or because he thinks that way. He is, after all, a lawyer. Maybe he did a search on the serious stuff and didn’t find anything. Or maybe Brown wasn’t convicted because he was a juvenile, or pleaded to a Class C, or had no record at all and was as clean as a virgin’s asshole. I still don’t think it matters. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2429 "2014-09-04T14:26:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Interesting wording “Brown was never convicted of a Class-A or Class-B felony as a juvenile”. Why specify what he was NOT convicted of? If he didn’t have a juvenile record, you could just say he didn’t have it. If he was never convicted of any felony, you could just say so outright. The wording kinda implies that he was convicted of a felony, just not class A or B… I don’t know what game the judge is playing. Either release the records that the media asked for or provide the reason for not releasing it. By selectively, and verbally, releasing bits and pieces of what ISN’T in the record, the judge is only fueling more speculation. The judge didn’t make the Ferguson situation any better. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2430 "2014-09-04T14:32:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I wonder if the lawyer phrased it that way because he was weaseling, or because he thinks that way. He is, after all, a lawyer. Maybe he did a search on the serious stuff and didn’t find anything. > > Or maybe Brown wasn’t convicted because he was a juvenile, or pleaded to a Class C, or had no record at all and was as clean as a virgin’s asshole. I still don’t think it matters. Agreed on all counts. Folks like **Terr** and **doorhinge** are convinced both that it matters and that the wording must mean there’s something being covered up. We see what we choose to see. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2431 "2014-09-04T14:43:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If it were possible for me to make a dumb mistake, that would be it. However, since no apparent rip in the fabric of space/time has been noted… You might have been thinking about the shot fired in the patrol car? 😃 This recording may or may not be used to confirm the actual number of shots that were fired. That’s still to be determined. It’s still not publically known how many rounds of ammo Ferguson PO Wilson’s weapon actually holds. 7? 10? 11? 15? Plus 1 in the chamber? And, the maker of the audio, or the roommate (if he/she were present when the video was being made), will need to testify in court as to the authenticity of the video or the video won’t be admissible. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2432 "2014-09-04T14:57:30Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Agreed on all counts. Folks like **Terr** and **doorhinge** are convinced both that it matters and that the wording must mean there’s something being covered up. > > We see what we choose to see. I notice that you have chosen to respond to subject matter that you say doesn’t matter. I guess it does matter to you. I prefer that all information be released to the public but I also understand that criminal investigation procedure doesn’t allow for immediate release. I can wait for the trial and don’t mind speculating on the available, and unavailable, information. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2433 "2014-09-04T15:06:56Z")
“Trial”? What “trial”? Are you expecting Mr. Brown to be indicted for felonious absorption of police property? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2434 "2014-09-04T15:08:45Z")
It’s hard to tell with **unhinged** , but I \*think \*he means the trial of _Wilson_. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2435 "2014-09-04T15:22:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Trial”? What “trial”? Are you expecting Mr. Brown to be indicted for felonious absorption of police property? Wilson’s trial. As well as the investigation into the procedures of the Ferguson PD. And the FBI report. And Eric Holder’s Just-Us department’s report. It’s all just one big puzzle from my point of view. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2436 "2014-09-04T16:25:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Trial”? What “trial”? Are you expecting Mr. Brown to be indicted for felonious absorption of police property? [Yes.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2437 "2014-09-11T16:33:45Z")
[Witnesses: Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot.](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2014/09/10/ac360-exclusive-video-recorded-moments-after-the-michael-brown-shooting/?iref=storysearch) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2438 "2014-09-11T16:43:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Witnesses: Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot.](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2014/09/10/ac360-exclusive-video-recorded-moments-after-the-michael-brown-shooting/?iref=storysearch) So who’s lying - the witness who said his hands were up, the witness who said he was running, or the witness who said he had his hands extended forward? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2439 "2014-09-11T16:53:10Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > [Yes.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html) Holy shit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2440 "2014-09-11T17:08:45Z")
This is a reminder that many people - and some SDMB posters - can’t tell the difference between a black kid and a hippopotamus. “He might’ve charged the VIP!” Fucking idiots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=123)