# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 148
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2941 "2014-11-25T06:38:32Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The real issue is that riots are going to continue until we educate blacks that our criminal justice system is largely fair and just. You’re probably right about that much. Thing is, it’s going to be hard to do that education until the system _is_ fair and just. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2942 "2014-11-25T06:42:57Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You really should include some probabilistic component to your claims. And if I do that I get accused of using “weasel words” instead. So I stopped bothering years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2943 "2014-11-25T06:44:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Our good friends at Talking Points Memo have photos from the evidence, showing the officer in the hospital, being treated for the wounds from his savage beating. > > [Newly Released Photos Show Officer Darren Wilson After Shooting - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/darren-wilson-picture-michael-brown-shooting) …Your point being what? His attacker didn’t break the skin, so he had no right to self-defense? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2944 "2014-11-25T06:53:21Z")
Based on the shoplifting video, Michael brown was absolutely a bully and a thug, I have very little sympathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2945 "2014-11-25T06:57:26Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > **The real issue is that riots are going to continue until we educate blacks that our criminal justice system is largely fair and just**. The reason blacks are arrested more often is because they have a higher rate of criminality. Blacks need to understand that it’s not a crime to kill a black person who is trying to harm or kill an other person, it is self defense. Being black doesn’t mean you get to hurt people and face no consequences. This false narrative of a failed criminal justice system which mostly works empowers all kinds of nonsense. People are rioting in the street literally because they believe democracy means that a jury must do what the mob says. The beatings will continue until morale improves! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2946 "2014-11-25T07:43:22Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Based on the shoplifting video, Michael brown was absolutely a bully and a thug, I have very little sympathy for him. Even Saudi Arabia doesn’t execute people for shoplifting. They just cut your right hand off. Also even if you decide Brown was a violent thug, that doesn’t in and of itself justify the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2947 "2014-11-25T07:43:34Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > All kinds of white people rockin’ that privilege in here tonight… What, you think there should be some kind of quota system for wrongful convictions? Finding an innocent man innocent is always a good thing. If you don’t like it, go to hell. > [@Leaper](#): > > By all means, please make this argument to the next African-American you meet. Heck, I’ll even let you wait to pick out one who’s older and seems relatively well off. > > Let us know how that works out for you. So your argument is that all black people will instinctively and violently defend a strongarm robber’s honour? And _we’re_ the racists? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2948 "2014-11-25T07:46:22Z")
“We”? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2949 "2014-11-25T07:52:20Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > So your argument is that all black people will instinctively and violently defend a strongarm robber’s honour? And _we’re_ the racists? Nnnnoooo, I’m saying that trying to tell a lot of them, maybe most, that “our criminal justice system is largely fair and just” (I’m assuming you read the post I was responding to) will not be taken seriously, because from what I’ve seen, they generally don’t believe anything of the kind. That’s one big reason why they don’t believe Darren Wilson or that Brown was in any way a “strongarm robber,” to use your terminology. And it’s not even like they’re the only racial group that believes so. And I gotta say, when I look around at all the unarmed people of one race getting shot to death while actual spree killers of another race actually get taken in alive, I have to wonder. As for the rest, it really depends who the “we” in question is. I mean, SOME of Wilson’s supporters ARE racist, very openly so, and proud of it, racism in fact being the entire reason for their organization. That’s not in question. I assume you don’t count them as part of your “we.” I certainly hope you’re not racist; I don’t recall reading enough of your posts to come to a conclusion yet. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2950 "2014-11-25T07:58:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Even Saudi Arabia doesn’t execute people for shoplifting. > > They just cut your right hand off. > > Also even if you decide Brown was a violent thug, that doesn’t in and of itself justify the shooting. I never said he should be executed for shoplifting, but he’s clearly a shitty person. If he attacked the cop, which I can believe is possible based on how he behaved towards the storevowner, then any negative that comes from that situation is his own damn fault. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2951 "2014-11-25T07:58:29Z")
That much progress _has_ been made. Nowadays, racists are loathe to admit it. In the Texas I grew up in, they couldn’t _wait_ to tell you. Kinda like vegans. That’s something. Not nearly enough, but something. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2952 "2014-11-25T08:09:20Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Nnnnoooo, I’m saying that trying to tell a lot of them, maybe most, that “our criminal justice system is largely fair and just” (I’m assuming you read the post I was responding to) will not be taken seriously, because from what I’ve seen, they generally don’t believe anything of the kind. That’s one big reason why they don’t believe Darren Wilson or that Brown was in any way a “strongarm robber,” to use your terminology. And it’s not even like they’re the only racial group that believes so. No, a person who does not believe Brown was a strongarm robber does so because they are deluded. Do they believe there is no such thing as a black man who commits strongarm robberies? Because if they don’t, the guy caught on video committing a strongarm robbery should be a prime contender. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2953 "2014-11-25T08:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > …if he attacked the cop, which I can believe is possible based on how he behaved towards the storevowner… Shoving a guy and attacking a cop with his bare hands. 9mm auto armed cop. Yeah, I can see how they are almost exactly the same thing. Good catch! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2954 "2014-11-25T08:23:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > …Your point being what? His attacker didn’t break the skin, so he had no right to self-defense? Why, no, thank Heaven he did defend himself! Otherwise he might have become one of those in that long, sad parade of white cops brutally victimized by young black men. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2955 "2014-11-25T08:29:46Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The real issue is that riots are going to continue until we educate blacks that our criminal justice system is largely fair and just. The reason blacks are arrested more often is because they have a higher rate of criminality. Blacks need to understand that it’s not a crime to kill a black person who is trying to harm or kill an other person, it is self defense. Being black doesn’t mean you get to hurt people and face no consequences. This false narrative of a failed criminal justice system which mostly works empowers all kinds of nonsense. People are rioting in the street literally because they believe democracy means that a jury must do what the mob says. The problem is that they’re just so uppity… It was much better when they knew their place. I’m pretty sure you agree that most blacks are not intelligent enough to grasp these things you describe anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2956 "2014-11-25T08:32:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why, no, thank Heaven he did defend himself! Otherwise he might have become one of those in that long, sad parade of white cops brutally victimized by young black men. Curious, if you HAD to choose between Brown or Wilson, which one would you choose to die? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2957 "2014-11-25T08:33:15Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Seriously, though, whether or not you agree with the outcome of the grand jury (which I do), I do hate it that this vandalism, looting, etc., will mar whatever peaceful protests were planned. Okay, why do you disagree with their conclusion? What did the evidence the grand jury examined indicate to you and why? Of course, vandalism, looting, etc. are wrong and those perpetrating those crimes should be prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2958 "2014-11-25T08:40:19Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Okay, why do you disagree with their conclusion? What did the evidence the grand jury examined indicate to you and why? > > Of course, vandalism, looting, etc. are wrong and those perpetrating those crimes should be prosecuted. 😕 I believe **Calatin** is saying he agrees with the GJ. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2959 "2014-11-25T08:58:57Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > 😕 I believe **Calatin** is saying he agrees with the GJ. OOPS! I’m so sorry, **Calatin**. I, somehow and ridiculously, saw a “not” in your post. Please forgive me. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2960 "2014-11-25T10:32:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The real issue is that riots are going to continue until we educate blacks that our criminal justice system is largely fair and just. The reason blacks are arrested more often is because they have a higher rate of criminality. Blacks need to understand that it’s not a crime to kill a black person who is trying to harm or kill an other person, it is self defense. Being black doesn’t mean you get to hurt people and face no consequences. This false narrative of a failed criminal justice system which mostly works empowers all kinds of nonsense. People are rioting in the street literally because they believe democracy means that a jury must do what the mob says. “Blacks need to understand that it’s not a crime to kill a black person who is trying to harm or kill an other person, it is self defense.” Why did that sentence need the second use of “black”? “This false narrative of a […] justice system which mostly works…” Freudian slip or really bad grammar? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=147) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=149)