# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 150
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2981 "2014-11-25T14:17:52Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The real issue is that riots are going to continue until we educate blacks that our criminal justice system is largely fair and just. The reason blacks are arrested more often is because they have a higher rate of criminality. Blacks need to understand that it’s not a crime to kill a black person who is trying to harm or kill an other person, it is self defense. Being black doesn’t mean you get to hurt people and face no consequences. This false narrative of a failed criminal justice system which mostly works empowers all kinds of nonsense. People are rioting in the street literally because they believe democracy means that a jury must do what the mob says. I work with, teach, and am taught by black people in a social-justice oriented setting every day, throughout my working hours. You don’t know shit about what black people do and don’t know about the justice system and democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2982 "2014-11-25T14:25:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Absolutely, I fully agree there. But by the same token, black people should feel no different when a black person is the victim of a crime than if a white person is, but you’ve been arguing that it’s fine when they do. Which is blatantly hypocritical. The cases at issue here play into black fears that they are second-class citizens in the eyes of the law, and that police officers and white people can get away with unjustified use of force against them. That’s why they feel aggrieved in these cases. Because they think, _That could be me/my son/etc._ The [National Review](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385162/rights-wrong-reaction-missouri-shooting-charles-c-w-cooke)’s Charles Cooke expresses this pretty well. That doesn’t mean that the feeling of aggrievement is always appropriate to the specifics of the case. I thought it was totally legit to be outraged that George Zimmerman wasn’t even arrested or investigated for killing an unarmed teenager. Once he was duly tried, I thought people should move on and accept the jury’s decision. In Ferguson, I personally think people should move on and accept the grand jury’s decision that the cop acted appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2983 "2014-11-25T14:37:44Z")
Certainly all the evidence I’ve read makes it clear that Wilson was not guilty. But we all knew this would be the end result. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2984 "2014-11-25T14:41:04Z")
There’s at least one black man in the US that’s happy about the grand jury verdict from last night… Bill Cosby ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2985 "2014-11-25T14:43:33Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The real issue is that riots are going to continue until we educate blacks that our criminal justice system is largely fair and just. Yeah, well, this grand jury result ain’t no lesson in that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2986 "2014-11-25T14:47:02Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Michael Brown was a 6’4", 292 lb bully that was probably used to being able to use his size to get what he wanted. That’s why he just felt he could steal $48 in cigars and why he decided he could slap a cop around. In an act of perfect justice, he was shot and killed . . . The death penalty would not be “perfect justice” for either of those offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2987 "2014-11-25T14:53:12Z")
Here’s a small but odd thing. There’s been a lot of outrage expressed in this thread over the notion expressed by some that just perhaps Michael Brown’s death was no great loss. After all, his crimes were not such that called for the death penalty. OK. And yet, in this very thread, a mere few pages ago, there was some discussion of a woman who bought a gun in anticipation of the riots and accidently killed herself with it. Did she do anything that calls for the death penalty? Not that I can tell. But there were several posts with humerous remarks, commenting about how funny they found her death. And no one called them on it either. Zero outrage expressed. Weird. What do you think could account for it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2988 "2014-11-25T14:54:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think it goes to far to say that Michael Brown deserved to die because of his behavior that night. I do think it is fair and correct to say that his behavior resulted in him justifiably being shot. I think the fact that he was shot was almost divorced from the idea of whether or not he deserved it. Because “stupid” is not exactly the same thing as “deserves it”. He robbed a store, assaulted a clerk (on videotape!), and then was marching down the middle of the street holding the stolen goods in his hand. Then when the cop spotted him and ordered him back on the sidewalk, he attacked the officer and tried to grab his gun. He was jumping up and down hollering “Yoo hoo! Universe! I need to be fucked with!” He was going to wind up dead, or in prison, or hit by a car, or shot by someone either in law enforcement or out of it, sooner or later. It turned out to be “sooner”. Stupid isn’t against the law, but it might as well be. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2989 "2014-11-25T15:03:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Stupid isn’t against the law, but it might as well be. Apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2990 "2014-11-25T15:16:27Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > OOPS! I’m so sorry, **Calatin**. I, somehow and ridiculously, saw a “not” in your post. Please forgive me. It’s all good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2991 "2014-11-25T15:16:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yeah, well, this grand jury result ain’t no lesson in that. You’re right there. It’s just proof that, if enough people kick up a fuss, there will be far more investigation than is warranted, at a far greater cost, with the same result. Wilson is innocent, just as innocent as he would have been if the Grand Jury was never convened. And yet, despite getting far more than “fairness” would dictate, there are still protests and riots. It’s not the justice system that’s at fault here. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2992 "2014-11-25T15:25:07Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > Rejoice! Plenty of liquor was liberated tonight! Free, free, I’m free at last. Thank God Almighty I’m free at last. - Johnny Walker - Jim Beam - Elijah Craig - Evan Williams - Henry McKenna - Ezra Brooks - Jack Daniels - Old Grand Dad ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2993 "2014-11-25T15:28:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Here’s a small but odd thing. > > There’s been a lot of outrage expressed in this thread over the notion expressed by some that just perhaps Michael Brown’s death was no great loss. After all, his crimes were not such that called for the death penalty. OK. > > And yet, in this very thread, a mere few pages ago, there was some discussion of a woman who bought a gun in anticipation of the riots and accidently killed herself with it. Did she do anything that calls for the death penalty? Not that I can tell. But there were several posts with humerous remarks, commenting about how funny they found her death. And no one called them on it either. Zero outrage expressed. > > Weird. What do you think could account for it? That is weird, because to my eyes, the two situations are identical in every way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2994 "2014-11-25T15:28:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You’re right there. It’s just proof that, if enough people kick up a fuss, there will be far more investigation than is warranted, at a far greater cost, with the same result. **Not** the same result as if Brown had been white. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2995 "2014-11-25T15:29:19Z")
I suppose Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will be along shortly to tell us how unfair America is and how we’re still in the deep south of the 1930s. Then again, I might be wrong, they may step up and thank the grand jury for honestly deliberating and making a fair decision. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2996 "2014-11-25T15:29:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Absolutely, I fully agree there. But by the same token, black people should feel no different when a black person is the victim of a crime than if a white person is, but you’ve been arguing that it’s fine when they do. Which is blatantly hypocritical. It’s far more than this – many of the protesters feel that they have been victims of disparate treatment by the police, or their families have. If one has been hassled by police for no good reason, then it’s reasonable for one to feel like the police might not be on their side. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2997 "2014-11-25T15:30:47Z")
[RW sickos tweetgloat.](http://www.salon.com/2014/11/25/right_wings_sick_twitter_celebration_ann_coulter_ted_nugent_brit_hume_battle_for_grossest_darren_wilson_tweet/) ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2998 "2014-11-25T15:37:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Not** the same result as if Brown had been white. Do you honestly believe that had Brown had been “white”, but had taken all the same actions, he wouldn’t be dead? Or that had Brown been “white”, the grand jury would have indicted? Isn’t it possible that the people who actually heard all the evidence, who spent weeks going over it, who heard the testimony, actually made the decision based on the evidence? And that Officer Wilson isn’t some kind of racist killer who took actions based on the situation and not the color of the person’s skin? ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2999 "2014-11-25T15:38:18Z")
The grand jury reached the proper conclusion. Michael Brown did not deserve to die, but his actions did cause an unfortunate and tragic ending. Michael Brown is a 6ft 4inch 300 pound bully who used his size and demeanor to intimidate, assault and batter at least two people that day, including Officer Darren Wilson. He was stopped by law enforcement after a strong arm robbery and knew the jig was up. He attacked the cop. When the officer got two shots off inside the car, Brown bolted and, as is the job and responsibility of law enforcement, Officer Wilson followed in pursuit. Brown turned back and charged at Wilson with intent of greivous bodily harm. Wilson warned Brown several times to stop, Brown did not. Officer Wilson defended himself with lethal force as he should have in that situation. That’s the story in a nutshell. Are there cases of racial injustice in the United States and the world as a whole? Sure, I’m down for that. I would agree with that. This is not one of those cases. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3000 "2014-11-25T15:40:04Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Do you honestly believe that had Brown had been “white”, but had taken all the same actions, he wouldn’t be dead? Or that had Brown been “white”, the grand jury would have indicted? Probably to the first, definitely to the second. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=149) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=151)