# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 158
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3141 "2014-11-26T02:44:36Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You heard it here, boys and girls. When a huge violent black man attacks you, take a severe bloody beating or we’ll call you racist for defending yourself. Stop it. Use of “pummeled” was silly to anyone who viewed the pics. ETA: I’ve no problem with “brush burn” or equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3142 "2014-11-26T02:44:56Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You heard it here, boys and girls. When a huge violent black man attacks you, take a severe bloody beating or we’ll call you racist for defending yourself. It should be noted that I’m not saying that. It should be noted that I don’t believe a blessed word out of Darren Wilson’s mouth, therefore what he claims happened is irrelevant to my opinion on this. The unindicted murderer is not to be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3143 "2014-11-26T02:48:43Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It should be noted that I’m not saying that. It should be noted that I don’t believe a blessed word out of Darren Wilson’s mouth, therefore what he claims happened is irrelevant to my opinion on this. The unindicted murderer is not to be trusted. And for what reason have you decided every word out of Wilson’s mouth is a lie? Has Wilson been proven to be a liar in the past? Is this you default position on any white police officer? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3144 "2014-11-26T02:56:48Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It should be noted that I’m not saying that. It should be noted that I don’t believe a blessed word out of Darren Wilson’s mouth, therefore what he claims happened is irrelevant to my opinion on this. The unindicted murderer is not to be trusted. Correction: he is not a murderer. Or can you point to his being convicted of that crime? Hell, can you even point to him even being charged with that crime? Oh, what’s that? You can’t? Awwwwww… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3145 "2014-11-26T03:55:54Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > {…} take a severe bloody beating {…} And the evidence of this “bloody beating” is what exactly? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3146 "2014-11-26T03:58:06Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It should be noted that I’m not saying that. It should be noted that I don’t believe a blessed word out of Darren Wilson’s mouth, therefore what he claims happened is irrelevant to my opinion on this. The unindicted murderer is not to be trusted. Seriously **jayjay** , if the forensic evidence soon to be release in this case support the Officers version of the incident, and directly contradicts many of the other witnesses statements, then are you willing to believe Officer Wilson? Remember, among these witnesses are people who insist Brown was shot in the back, and the autopsy clearly proves that did not happen. What if the other evidence is as compelling? Do you think they tampered with the evidence in this case? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3147 "2014-11-26T04:17:33Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > _ahem_ > > Don’t roll up on a cop and assault him (a crime, by the way) if you don’t want to face repercussions. The fact that this gets lost in the conversation is mind numbing. Agreed. Anyone, white or black, who reaches through a window of a cop car, grabs his gun and punches him in the face has placed himself in a dangerous situation. The cop rightfully fears that the suspect is out to kill him, and any surrender after that point had better be unequivocal. I simply do not understand why some in the black community see an “us v. them” attitude towards this situation. Are police in these neighborhoods really beating and shooting blacks who are submitting to a lawful detention? Who is the “us” in these communities? Those who get in scrapes with the police? If you are a person who responds to a police inquiry with violence, then maybe you need to join the other camp. The rioting and looting in one’s _own neighborhood_ seems ridiculous as well. Imagine that I am upset with the city government and it commits an intolerable atrocity. Should I go to a neighbor’s business where I drink coffee, buy liquor, or the local McDonalds where I swing by for lunch and destroy the place? Boy, I sure showed that corrupt city government something by putting my neighbor out of business who is getting screwed by that same government. That liquor store in Ferguson had “hands up” posters displayed outside. He was a supporter of Mike Brown. The black owner of the cell phone store that was destroyed was on the news this morning crying about how he was going to be able to feed his kids. How in the hell does harming your own people, the ones on your side, stick it to the man? These weren’t just a few outliers. Swarms of people were carrying out liquor bottles and chanting “Fuck the Police.” Those people didn’t do shit to the police; they hurt their friends and neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3148 "2014-11-26T04:18:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Correction: he is not a murderer. Or can you point to his being convicted of that crime? Hell, can you even point to him even being charged with that crime? > > Oh, what’s that? You can’t? Awwwwww… I can think of a number of figures never convicted or charged with any crime that I would safely call murderers. Let’s go with… Stalin, just to be at least a little different from the norm. Not a murderer? Edit: On re-reading I feel I should point out that I am not in any way comparing historical figures to whom mass slaughter is attributed to Wilson, just in case. Just trying to point out that this particular argument seems like a silly one. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3149 "2014-11-26T04:19:51Z")
Well, it does make an interesting narrative, one that apparently fascinated the prosecutor. He simply couldn’t shut up until he had made mention of every single one. What value does he see in that, I have to wonder. Debunked evidence is of no value, what is to be gained by bringing it up? Other than to shepherd the grand jury into thinking that all witnesses are bogus, to set the stage for a sympathetic portrayal of a persecuted cop, surrounded by lying…people. Keep in mind, he isn’t burdened by the standards of a trial jury, he only has to get _four_ people out of twelve to have doubts, and his client walks. And just about any jury in America that has twelve people on it has four that are very sympathetic to policemen. He could hardly miss, but he wasn’t taking any chances, shooting fish in a barrel with a hand grenade. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3150 "2014-11-26T04:21:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > _ahem_ > > Don’t roll up on a cop and assault him (a crime, by the way) if you don’t want to face repercussions. The fact that this gets lost in the conversation is mind numbing. I’m not sure you know what “roll up” means. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3151 "2014-11-26T04:27:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, it does make an interesting narrative, one that apparently fascinated the prosecutor. He simply couldn’t shut up until he had made mention of every single one. > > What value does he see in that, I have to wonder. Debunked evidence is of no value, what is to be gained by bringing it up? Other than to shepherd the grand jury into thinking that all witnesses are bogus, to set the stage for a sympathetic portrayal of a persecuted cop, surrounded by lying…people. You do understand that the prosecutor (McCullough) was not the one presenting the case to the grand jury. Two other prosecutors did. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3152 "2014-11-26T04:29:51Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > According to Stephanopoulos, Wilson answered every question that was asked. And after watching the interview, there was nothing indicating to me that Wilson was fabricating anything about how the events went down. I saw the interview too. I believe Wilson when he said he felt like a 5 year old wrestling Hulk Hogan when Brown had him in his grip. Brown could have seriously injured the officer with his superior size and strength. Add to that Brown being pissed off for being shot, lack of backup for Wilson, and I’m seeing a picture of an officer who really did fear for his safety. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3153 "2014-11-26T04:40:58Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You heard it here, boys and girls. When a huge violent black man attacks you, take a severe bloody beating or we’ll call you racist for defending yourself. Exactly. People here still don’t seem to realise that the point of self defence is to _stop_ someone beating you senseless, or worse, not to get revenge for them doing it. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And the evidence of this “bloody beating” is what exactly? > > CMC fnord! He prevented the bloody beating by shooting Brown, as was his perfect right. And as **levdrakon** correctly says, he’s being called racist because he chose not to be beaten, but instead defended himself. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3154 "2014-11-26T05:01:30Z")
Here’s a [CNN video](http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/11/25/sot-michael-brown-stepfather-grand-jury-reaction-raw.new-york-times.html) of Michael Brown’s stepfather telling the crowd to “Burn this bitch down.” Perhaps this explains where Brown learned to be a thug. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3155 "2014-11-26T05:15:16Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I can think of a number of figures never convicted or charged with any crime that I would safely call murderers. Let’s go with… Stalin, just to be at least a little different from the norm. Not a murderer? > > Edit: On re-reading I feel I should point out that I am not in any way comparing historical figures to whom mass slaughter is attributed to Wilson, just in case. Just trying to point out that this particular argument seems like a silly one. More to the point, you are not saying that you consider Wilson to be a murderer. (We’ve got to invent an English to English to English translator guide so us English speakers can carry on a conversation. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3156 "2014-11-26T05:16:19Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Here’s a [CNN video](http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/11/25/sot-michael-brown-stepfather-grand-jury-reaction-raw.new-york-times.html) of Michael Brown’s stepfather telling the crowd to “Burn this bitch down.” > > Perhaps this explains where Brown learned to be a thug. Can Brown’s stepfather be charged with inciting a riot? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3157 "2014-11-26T05:17:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You do understand that the prosecutor ( **McCullough** ) was not the one presenting the case to the grand jury. Two other prosecutors did. Correction: McCulloch. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3158 "2014-11-26T05:31:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does said drill have a mathematical constant to factor in ballistic interference? A “justgotshot” quotient? It doesn’t. I wouldn’t expect a constant though based on historical experiences of gunshot wounds. You’d probably be looking at a delay ranging from almost insignificant to infinity. Some people don’t realize they’ve been shot till after an encounter is over (and don’t need the affected parts for locomotion). Some drop instantly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3159 "2014-11-26T05:39:01Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > …These weren’t just a few outliers… How do you know that? > [@](#): > > …Swarms of people were carrying out liquor bottles and chanting “Fuck the Police.” Those people didn’t do shit to the police; they hurt their friends and neighbors. Same sort of thing happened in the not so good old days. Have an anti-war gathering, same bunch of self-styled “Maoist” shit-disturbers would show up. Provoking police violence advanced revolutionary ardor, or some crap like that. So what do you do? Give up? Instead of the Man taking away your right to protest, let _them_ do it? Why should any black American share any responsibility for what another does simply because they share a set of grievances and skin tone? And how is fear of what may happen any improvement over fear of what may happen to you? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3160 "2014-11-26T05:46:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who are you arguing with? When did I claim that such an action is wise? I’m not arguing with anyone. Brown was moving in the direction of Wilson when he was shot. That movement has been called walking, and it’s been called charging. The forensic evidence is consistent with Brown moving towards Wilson. What’s still unknown is at what point did Wilson fire the 3rd shot. The audio recording of the last shot being fired can pinpoint the time when Brown fell down dead. The recording doesn’t prove at what point in time during Brown’s charge/advance/walk/stroll towards Wilson that Wilson fired his 3rd shot. One step, two steps, three steps, four? Every step would have brought Brown closer to Wilson. And Wilson wasn’t going to give Brown the chance to further injure him or possibly murder him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=157) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=159)