# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/301 "2014-08-14T16:41:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t think the press has an obligation to disperse. If there’s a disturbance going on, they have a duty to record it. Suppose the press had buggered off from Kent State, would the National Guard have killed more? If the police tell them to disperse, they must disperse. It’s as simple as that. It’s not as if they’ve in anyway been prevented from reporting on what’s happening. Anyway, if the press are interfering in the police operation - as the Huffington Post people were, based on their own stories, they are ignoring their duty, which is to report, not participate. A journalist who joins a protest or riot deserves no more protection than anyone else involved. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/302 "2014-08-14T16:46:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I always wonder about the statement “I don’t believe their actions were justified, but I do think they are understandable”. To me, “understandable” means “justified” if you’re talking about someone like yourself. As in “I could possibly do the same (that is, justify it to myself) in the same circumstance”. > > The only way “understandable” is not the same as “justified” is if you’re talking about someone lesser, morally and ethically, than you. As in “Obviously I wouldn’t do that, but that kind of person, whatchagonnado?”. Two wrongs don’t make a right but I understand the desire for revenge. not saying that is what is going on here but understandable doesn’t mean justfied. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/303 "2014-08-14T16:49:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > not saying that is what is going on here but understandable doesn’t mean justfied. As I said, “understandable” does not mean “justified” only if you think that it is not possible for you to behave that way. And then that means that the person you’re talking about is lesser, morally and ethically, than you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/304 "2014-08-14T16:49:42Z")
An assembly is a group, not an entity. A person may commit a crime, he may even be part of a group, but the group does not then become a criminal. Further, seems to me that if a group has a criminal intent, then they are the one’s most likely to be anxious not to be covered by reporters with cameras and stuff. So, then, where are all the reports of protestors interfering with the press, if they are so anxious? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/305 "2014-08-14T16:49:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Anyway, if the press are interfering in the police operation - as the Huffington Post people were, based on their own stories… Where are you getting that from? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/306 "2014-08-14T16:52:47Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If the police tell them to disperse, they must disperse. It’s as simple as that. It’s not as if they’ve in anyway been prevented from reporting on what’s happening. The press were being fired upon and teargassed, and their equipment tampered with. Previously, the press was being turned away from even entering the city. A no-fly zone was created to keep news helicopters away. The press is clearly being prevented from reporting. > [@](#): > > Anyway, if the press are interfering in the police operation - as the Huffington Post people were, based on their own stories, They were sitting in a McDonald’s charging their phones and tweeting. There was no interference in anything. > [@](#): > > they are ignoring their duty, which is to report, not participate. A journalist who joins a protest or riot deserves no more protection than anyone else involved. The Constitution guarantees a right to assembly. When police in a tank are driving through the protest, the fact they are shouting “Your right to assemble is not being violated!” only adds to the irony. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/307 "2014-08-14T16:53:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Did you watch the video? In the video, he is acting like a complete dick. I don’t think you’re fairly characterizing the actions of the reporter’s actions in the video. I do agree he wasn’t being compliant. It seemed to me that he was trying to prolong how long he could stay there for some reason. I thought this particular cop acted fine. He has a guy who is not complying, and wants to have a discussion. But he never gets personally in the guys face and doesn’t ratchet up the situation. If a cop is clearing someplace out, you need to leave. It’s really as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/308 "2014-08-14T16:55:26Z")
And you have fifteen seconds to comply… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/309 "2014-08-14T16:55:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where are you getting that from? The journalist who, instead of leaving when instructed to by the police, started filming him and shouting to his colleague to tweet about what was happening. Leave first, then report. Now, if he’d been followed and prevented from reporting after getting out of the way of the police, that would be a different matter, but he didn’t, he deliberately failed to follow instructions and tried to claim that being a journalist meant he didn’t have to - whilst refusing to actually show his ID. All this is from his own story… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/310 "2014-08-14T16:58:06Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > A no-fly zone was created to keep news helicopters away. The press is clearly being prevented from reporting. I had read that the reason for the no-fly zone was that police helicopters were fired upon. Do you have a cite that shows the reason you cite as the one? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/311 "2014-08-14T16:59:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As I said, “understandable” does not mean “justified” only if you think that it is not possible for you to behave that way. And then that means that the person you’re talking about is lesser, morally and ethically, than you. You keep saying that. It persists in being wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/312 "2014-08-14T16:59:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > …whilst refusing to actually show his ID… So, they didn’t know he was a reporter, then? Reports I have seen indicate he was wearing his credentials around his neck, pretty standard procedure when it is important to be seen as a reporter. A specific quote otherwise would be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/313 "2014-08-14T17:00:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t think you’re fairly characterizing the actions of the reporter’s actions in the video. I do agree he wasn’t being compliant. It seemed to me that he was trying to prolong how long he could stay there for some reason. I thought this particular cop acted fine. He has a guy who is not complying, and wants to have a discussion. But he never gets personally in the guys face and doesn’t ratchet up the situation. If a cop is clearing someplace out, you need to leave. It’s really as simple as that. When you’re asked, by a cop, to stop videotaping and leave the place, asking “Am I not allowed to videotape the cops” as the reporter did is being a dick. He is not asked to stop videotaping the cops. He is asked to leave, which means stop what you’re doing (in this case, videotaping) and leave. To continue videotaping, while gathering your belongings with one hand, is to continue being a dick. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/314 "2014-08-14T17:00:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I had read that the reason for the no-fly zone was that police helicopters were fired upon. Do you have a cite that shows the reason you cite as the one? Why do you ask? You haven’t given us a cite saying that police helicopters were fired upon. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/315 "2014-08-14T17:01:20Z")
For those blaming the reporters, do you think we have an obligation to follow every order from the police? Under what authority did the police order people out of McDonalds? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/316 "2014-08-14T17:01:44Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The press were being fired upon and teargassed, and their equipment tampered with. Previously, the press was being turned away from even entering the city. A no-fly zone was created to keep news helicopters away. The press is clearly being prevented from reporting. They are not being prevented from reporting. They are being prevented from getting in the fucking way, putting themselves, the police, the rioters/protesters, and the innocent citizens at further risk. Believe it or not, the right of everyone involved to get this mess cleared up and the ongoing crime stopped is a bit more fucking important than your right to get on the spot tweets rather than slightly delayed reports. The no-fly zone was because people were _shooting at the fucking helicopters_. People’s safety is far more important than the right of journalists to fly over the area. No-one is being prevented from reporting what’s happening - unless you’re aware of any gagging orders, or attempts to prevent people either leaving Ferguson to talk to journalists, or phoning them, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/317 "2014-08-14T17:02:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > When you’re asked, by a cop, to stop videotaping and leave the place, asking “Am I not allowed to videotape the cops” as the reporter did is being a dick. He is not asked to stop videotaping the cops. He is asked to leave, which means stop what you’re doing (in this case, videotaping) and leave. To continue videotaping, while gathering your belongings with one hand, is to continue being a dick. Ah, felony dickitude! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/318 "2014-08-14T17:02:29Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Sure, there’s always going to be a few of those in any crowd. But I feel like it’s also a way for the people to say that they have power too. The police can kill a citizen for no appreciable reason. The citizens can wreck everything for the same non-reason. It’s a gauntlet thrown down. Are you going to shoot the rest of us for doing something worse than whatever this particular victim did? Do you have enough bullets to kill us all? Are you willing to gun down your fellow citizens just because? > > I don’t think it’s all just people who want to steal taking the opportunity. I’d like to think human nature isn’t so opportunistic. Some, certainly. But most I’d prefer to think are trying to let the police know that this system only works if both sides can trust each other. I think its both. During the LA riots it was weird to see Black rioters burning down stores and Mexican looters backing up vans to loot the contents of the store, sometimes as a rioter was setting the goddam place on fire. Of course some of the rioters were Mexican and many of the looters were black but it wasn’t all avarice The rioters felt that they were being forced to hold up their end of the social contract (and imprisoned for failing to do so) and when it was time for the rest of society to hold up its end, they called a mulligan. So what use is the social contract to them? Why respect the rule of law if it is only ever used as a cudgel against them and never as a shield for them? Its never just one incident that causes a riot. Our police have become more militarized and adopted a more military rather than police mentality. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/319 "2014-08-14T17:02:44Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The press were being fired upon and teargassed, and their equipment tampered with. Previously, the press was being turned away from even entering the city. A no-fly zone was created to keep news helicopters away. The press is clearly being prevented from reporting. Obviously not, since they’ve reported everything you just said. No reporter has been fired on or teargassed who was simply doong their job and not interfering with police action. They have been turned away from entering riot areas, because the police are responsible for their safety and can’t protected them from a rioting horde. The no-fly zone exists to allow police helicopters to operate safely and because the rioters have attempted to shoot down helicopters. > [@](#): > > They were sitting in a McDonald’s charging their phones and tweeting. There was no interference in anything. They were interfering in the dispersal of the crowd from that McDonalds. > [@](#): > > The Constitution guarantees a right to assembly. When police in a tank are driving through the protest, the fact they are shouting “Your right to assemble is not being violated!” only adds to the irony. It guarantees a right to PEACABLY assemble. Throwing Molotov cocktails and setting fires is not a protest, it’s an insurrection, which the Constitution empowers the government to use force against. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/320 "2014-08-14T17:02:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why do you ask? You haven’t given us a cite saying that police helicopters were fired upon. > **[FAA Issues Flight Restriction After Rioters Fired ‘Multiple Times’ At Police...](https://dailycaller.com/2014/08/12/faa-issues-flight-restriction-after-rioters-fired-multiple-times-at-police-helicopter/)** > > Restriction could last until next week [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=17)