# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 160
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3181 "2014-11-26T16:14:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait, what? Where did you get that? Holstered? I suppose it could be claimed that Wilson was driving around Ferguson with his weapon in his hand, or laying on the seat next to him, but that just sounds implausible if not outright stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3182 "2014-11-26T16:15:05Z")
> [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](#): > > Apologies, I was reading/editing so much, I missed that and didn’t proofread. Somewhere I saw where they discuss the witnesses and extrapolate things - not an official statement - here it is: > > [http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/20/police-sources-to-nyt-witnesses-forensics-show-that-wilson-sustained-an-injury-during-his-confrontation-with-michael-brown/](http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/20/police-sources-to-nyt-witnesses-forensics-show-that-wilson-sustained-an-injury-during-his-confrontation-with-michael-brown/) > And confused it with the actual testimony. Again, apologies for that. > > Wilson drew the gun, and Brown grabbed it. > > [10 Of The Most Important Pieces Of Evidence From Darren Wilson's Testimony - Listverse](http://listverse.com/2014/11/25/10-of-the-most-important-pieces-of-evidence-from-darren-wilson-testimony/) Getting his fingerprints all over the weapon, right? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3183 "2014-11-26T16:20:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m responding to reports from other sources, all of which clearly state that Brown was fleeing. Thus, Wilson was at that point not in danger of taking a beating. Those people are lying. All the physical evidence says they are lying. Brown was only shot from the front, and he left a blood trail as he moved towards Wilson. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3184 "2014-11-26T16:21:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I suppose it could be claimed that Wilson was driving around Ferguson with his weapon in his hand, or laying on the seat next to him, but that just sounds implausible if not outright stupid. He had already drawn it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3185 "2014-11-26T16:21:58Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Awww. Did Anonymous out you? You’re welcome to that _fantasy,_ I suppose. But in _reality,_ no, of course not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3186 "2014-11-26T16:22:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I suppose it could be claimed that Wilson was driving around Ferguson with his weapon in his hand, or laying on the seat next to him, but that just sounds implausible if not outright stupid. Indeed, it does, which is probably why nobody said it. However, your firm rebuttal will most likely forestall any such idiocy, and we thank you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3187 "2014-11-26T16:27:22Z")
> [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](#): > > When Brown ran, then ordered to stop, Brown did not stop, he did not get on the ground, he did not surrender in any directed way. He was a threat, he was told to stop, he didn’t. He turned and began to approach Wilson. At what speed does not matter. He was told to stop and he did not. He was a threat. Wilson did what he did at the time because that is what his training taught him to do. This is the point of dispute between various witnesses and Wilson’s account, as far as I can tell. At some point Brown probably turned, and probably moved back towards Wilson in some fashion. But according to some of the witnesses, he was trying to surrender – arms high, not moving fast. According to Wilson, he turned to charge. In my view, if someone is trying to surrender, shooting them is not self defense. If someone is turning and moving towards him in a maybe/maybe not surrender attempt, then it becomes much more hazy as to what’s appropriate. But these are reasonable points of disagreement by the protesters – that shooting someone who might be surrendering, even if they’re otherwise acting erratically, perhaps should not be lawful. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3188 "2014-11-26T16:30:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The other two are McCulloch’s employees (or his subordinates, to be more precise.) Right. But McCulloch was not the one condicting the Grand Jury investigation or questioning anyone. So all that talk about how his cop father was shot by a black man is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3189 "2014-11-26T16:31:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Gosh, to the casual observer, that post sounds pretty racist. “Bunch of white doughnuts”, indeed. Keep up the good work. :rolleyes: Is this a variation on the “liberals are intolerant of intolerance” gambit? It’s racist to note that groups of people who hate black people are white? That’s just fucking stupid. Now, if I said white people generally hate black people, that would be racist. I suppose it’s not fair to expect you to understand that, though. > [@](#): > > The only psychopathic fantasies are those of the rioters, looters, brick throwers, and arsonist who believe that destroying businesses that had absolutely nothing to do with the grand jury decision, or the initial Brown debacle, is going to garner public support for mindless violence. I’m referring to the psychopaths in this thread who are excited that Wilson took out this garbage, this hulking demonic thug who deserved to die. I could be wrong - instead of psychopathy, it could just be extreme pants-wetting. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3190 "2014-11-26T16:33:02Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Those people are lying. All the physical evidence says they are lying. Brown was only shot from the front, and he left a blood trail as he moved towards Wilson. You’re referring to the shots that hit Brown. I’m referring to the shots that missed, but supposedly caused him to stop and turn. Do you understand? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3191 "2014-11-26T16:33:39Z")
I was robbed at gun point by a black man once, and not a _single_ black person has ever said they were sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3192 "2014-11-26T16:34:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You’re welcome to that _fantasy,_ I suppose. But in _reality,_ no, of course not. They didn’t get to you yet? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3193 "2014-11-26T16:36:17Z")
Regarding the stepfather’s “Burn this motherfucker down!” rant - CNN’s Erin Burnett was interviewing an NAACP spokesperson ( I believe it was Cornell Brooks, the President and CEO). She showed the clip of the rant and asked if he believed that this was a call for violence. I may have the exact words wrong but its very close - He said, “No. I don’t think this is a call for violence” and went on to talk about a peaceful march planned for next week or something. And she didn’t call him on it. What. The. Fuck? How can you expect anyone to take anything you ever say again seriously with a reply like that? This guy has zero credibility from here on out. Burnett next (or maybe it was prior) interviewed the Director of Missouri Department of Public Safety. She first asked why the announcement of ‘no indictment’ was made at night? He said that it wasn’t his decision. Pretty much everyone seems to agree that this was a completely boneheaded decision. I’d like to see whoever made that call (it seems it was McCulloch) held to account on this one. I hope the media doesn’t let it slide. She then tried to get the Director to admit that they were unprepared for the unrest that followed the verdict. The same talking head who, just weeks ago, was questioning the over-response and militarization of the police during the first riots is now criticizing, through implication, an official for not having the National Guard on the scene sooner. Hmmm. JTagain raises a point I have often thought about. How does burning down and looting your own neighborhood stores advance your cause? The answer is, “It doesn’t”. It just re-enforces the belief that the protesters are thugs and criminals. There is nothing political or “social reforming” about it. elucidator danced around the point being made by JT by saying “What are you supposed to do?” How about putting as much effort into protecting “your” stores from whoever the looters are as throwing rocks at the police? It is plain theft, vandalism and rioting and I hope that the excellent video that was broadcast is used down the road to prosecute these people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3194 "2014-11-26T16:39:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m referring to the psychopaths in this thread who are excited that Wilson took out this garbage, this hulking demonic thug who deserved to die. I could be wrong - instead of psychopathy, it could just be extreme pants-wetting. I’m not _excited_ that Wilson took out this garbage, this hulking demonic thug who deserved to die; I merely _note_ that Wilson took out this garbage, this hulking demonic thug who deserved to die. The only psychopathy in question belonged to Brown, and the only urine in question belonged on his memorial. > [@](#): > > They didn’t get to you yet? For what? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3195 "2014-11-26T16:48:20Z")
Does any physical evidence contradict any of Wilson’s testimony? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3196 "2014-11-26T16:53:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Indeed, it does, which is probably why nobody said it. However, your firm rebuttal will most likely forestall any such idiocy, and we thank you. Who is this “we” you are referring to? Who are you representing? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3197 "2014-11-26T16:54:04Z")
…and complains that his son’s character has been ‘assassinated’. I’m sorry, sir, but your son did that to himself. We have it on video. Your family’s inability to articulate that your son’s criminal behavior was wrong and a factor, and step-father’s “Burn it down” comment, seems further to impeach the character of several members of your own family. There are a lot of legit civil rights issues in American society. I don’t think this is one of them. Some of my peers here on the Dope, who bought the original presentation of Brown as a victim of police aggression, might want to consider that changing your mind the face of new and better evidence is no vice. Isn’t that what we so frequently chide the conservatives about? “I have chosen my version of reality already, don’t bother me with further facts.” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3198 "2014-11-26T16:58:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I was robbed at gun point by a black man once, and not a _single_ black person has ever said they were sorry! Did any married black people say they were sorry? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3199 "2014-11-26T16:59:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Right. But McCulloch was not the one condicting the Grand Jury investigation or questioning anyone. So all that talk about how his cop father was shot by a black man is irrelevant. What? I don’t think McCulloch handled the case inappropriately, but for those who do that sort of thing is certainly relevant. McCulloch did not personally present the case to the grand jury but he supervises those who did and almost certainly was personally involved in selecting the witnesses and documentary evidence. If he wanted to present a biased view, the fact that his underlings were doing the presentation is hardly a bar. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3200 "2014-11-26T17:00:23Z")
Would Brown need to be an innocent lamb gamboling amongst the daffodils to qualify for his license to continue breathing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=159) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=161)