# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 162
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3221 "2014-11-26T19:18:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Forgive my frustration here, but since I just went over this point, you obviously ignored it. Let me get your attention: You stupid fuck! The autopsy report CANNOT speak to whether he was shot at, except to illustrate when he was actually hit. > > Do you understand? Maybe someone who is much better at math than you are will help you determine how long it takes a bullet to travel 10 to 25 feet when it has a muzzle velocity of 1000 feet, or more, per second. In your mind you believe the bullet was fired, the delinquent Brown did a Matrix type move and caused the bullet to hit him elsewhere? Awesome. Do you have a newsletter? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3222 "2014-11-26T19:22:00Z")
No, I think **Hentor** is suggesting that the cop fired at Brown’s back and missed, and then Brown turned and the subsequent shots hit him. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3223 "2014-11-26T19:24:04Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > No, I think **Hentor** is suggesting that the cop fired at Brown’s back and missed, and then Brown turned and the subsequent shots hit him. Oh, he’s making up facts. I guess I missed that part. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3224 "2014-11-26T19:25:16Z")
All I’m really learning in this thread is how much of a stupid fucking moron \*\*Hentor \*\*is. Am I late to the party? Should I have known this already? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3225 "2014-11-26T19:26:01Z")
Fine. Even if you take out the statement, it’s still a Darwin Award winner. It was awfully considerate of Mr. Brown to continue to approach the officer, so the officer wouldn’t face the inconvenience of having to come over to him to arrest him. When you have to hypothesize the existence of false memories right after the incident, you’re probably losing the argument on it’s merits. I find the ‘pussy’ comment entirely congruent with the apparent attitude of the dude in the convenieence store video, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3226 "2014-11-26T19:33:42Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > All I’m really learning in this thread is how much of a stupid fucking moron \*\*Hentor \*\*is. > > Am I late to the party? Should I have known this already? Yes you are late to the party, but hey, better to learn late than be a retard and take what he says seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3227 "2014-11-26T19:46:22Z")
“Fine. Even if you take out the statement, it’s still a Darwin Award winner. It was awfully considerate of Mr. Brown to continue to approach the officer, so the officer wouldn’t face the inconvenience of having to come over to him to arrest him.” If you’d watched the Wilson interview (I’ve not covered all of his testimony to the GJ), you’d know that his (declared) intention when he was out of his vehicle and toward Brown was not to arrest. Hope that detail is relevant to you. “When you have to hypothesize the existence of false memories right after the incident, you’re probably losing the argument on it’s [sic] merits.” This tells me that you’re not clear on what false memory creation is, because it has nothing to do with proximity to the time of the incident. At any rate, I don’t “have to” do any such thing. I’m simply trying to figure out why he mentioned certain events no one else recalls. “I find the ‘pussy’ comment entirely congruent with the apparent attitude of the dude in the convenieence store video, myself.” That’s fine, but it’s also a comment that someone might make up or misrecall after the fact that isn’t necessarily true. This isn’t to say that I’m clear on the relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3228 "2014-11-26T19:50:30Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > No, I think **Hentor** is suggesting that the cop fired at Brown’s back and missed, and then Brown turned and the subsequent shots hit him. There were two groups - 6 shots and then 4 shots. Brown was shot 6 times - all in front. Even if ALL shots from the second group (when he supposedly turned around) hit him, simple math shows that at least one of those six hits would have been in the back - IF the officer was shooting at his back. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3229 "2014-11-26T19:53:45Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > “Fine. Even if you take out the statement, it’s still a Darwin Award winner. It was awfully considerate of Mr. Brown to continue to approach the officer, so the officer wouldn’t face the inconvenience of having to come over to him to arrest him.” > > If you’d watched the Wilson interview (I’ve not covered all of his testimony to the GJ), you’d know that his (declared) intention when he was out of his vehicle and toward Brown was not to arrest. Hope that detail is relevant to you. > > “When you have to hypothesize the existence of false memories right after the incident, you’re probably losing the argument on it’s [sic] merits.” > > This tells me that you’re not clear on what false memory creation is, because it has nothing to do with proximity to the time of the incident. At any rate, I don’t “have to” do any such thing. I’m simply trying to figure out why he mentioned certain events no one else recalls. > > “I find the ‘pussy’ comment entirely congruent with the apparent attitude of the dude in the convenieence store video, myself.” > > That’s fine, but it’s also a comment that someone might make up or misrecall after the fact that isn’t necessarily true. This isn’t to say that I’m clear on the relevance. Actually, I am very conversant with the work of Dr. Elizabeth Loftus and have been in several trainings with Dr. Yapko. I’m willing to bet I know a lot more about it than you do, but feel free to provide your bona fides. And no, Wilson’s intent to arrest isn’t awfully relevent, it’s Brown’s intent that seems more so to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3230 "2014-11-26T19:56:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does any physical evidence contradict any of Wilson’s testimony? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > [Ferguson Grand Jury Evidence Reveals Mistakes, Holes In Investigation | HuffPost Latest News](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6220814) > > Where physical evidence was not collected, it is not possible to contradict that testimony. For example, apparently no effort was made to gather fingerprint evidence from the gun. Apparently, Wilson washed blood evidence from himself. A number of other oddities certainly are eyebrow raising. So the answer is “no.” Does any physical evidence contradict any of the other witness’ testimony? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3231 "2014-11-26T20:08:42Z")
“Apparently, Wilson washed blood evidence from himself.” - **Hentor** 3 possibilities: 1. blood is from Brown. Appears to support the officer’s version. 2. blood is from Wilson. Supports the officer. 3. blood is from neither. Might support a conspiracy or some other version I can’t conceive of, that would support Brown. Which are you suggesting, or what other possibility have I missed? Or are you just asking questions? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3232 "2014-11-26T20:12:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So the answer is “no.” > > Does any physical evidence contradict any of the other witness’ testimony? Correct. Of the physical evidence they opted to collect, it does not appear to have conflicted with the testimony shaped by the particular, in some instances peculiar, grand jury questioning. Now if only someone would teach the blacks about the justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3233 "2014-11-26T20:32:19Z")
**Hentor** , let me add another question. What fingerprint evidence could have seriously undermined Wilson’s version of events? It seems beyond dispute that he was assaulted by Brown while in his patrol car and he admits he drew his gun. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3234 "2014-11-26T20:35:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does any physical evidence contradict any of the other witness’ testimony? Any witnesses? Yes, sure. For instance, there’s a witness who says Brown was charging at Wilson “football style” who is undeniably lying about even being there. And there are witnesses who said Brown was shot after he was lying on the ground. What’s your point, there are like 20 something witnesses. Some of them gave statements that are contradicted by the physical evidence. But there’s lots of witnesses who’s statements \*are \*consistent with the physical evidence. So now what? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3235 "2014-11-26T20:38:33Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > **Hentor** , let me add another question. What fingerprint evidence could have seriously undermined Wilson’s version of events? It seems beyond dispute that he was assaulted by Brown while in his patrol car and he admits he drew his gun. How about the absence of any prints other that Wilson’s? Are you really arguing that it’s okay to forego the collection of evidence? Or that it’s okay if we can come up with a plausible hypothesis that would explain it if we actually had it? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3236 "2014-11-26T20:40:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > How about the absence of any prints other that Wilson’s? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. > [@](#): > > Are you really arguing that it’s okay to forego the collection of evidence? As explained, the forensic procedures allow for either DNA collection or fingerprinting from that surface. They opted for DNA. If they opted for fingerprinting, I am sure you’d be complaining that they didn’t collect DNA. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3237 "2014-11-26T20:41:55Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > **Hentor** , let me add another question. What fingerprint evidence could have seriously undermined Wilson’s version of events? It seems beyond dispute that he was assaulted by Brown while in his patrol car and he admits he drew his gun. How is that beyond doubt? We have the testimony of Wilson, what else? Suppose he _was_ mouthing off to the cop? Not smart, but not felonious. Whether that qualifies as “thug” is a matter of perception. And he sees Wilson drawing his weapon and thinks “Holy fuck, the cracker cop is going to shoot my ass!”. Then his options are try to take the gun or at least stop him from using it, or seeing if he can outrun a 9mm slug. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3238 "2014-11-26T20:43:48Z")
Maybe I’m hopelessly muddled, but were we talking false memories or repressed (including faux “repressed”) memories (that’s only two categories out of any number to do with faulty memory)? Considered myself clear on which phenomenon when I mentioned the examples of (1) parents who left babies to die in hot cars (and being certain about events leading up to tragedy, and then discovering that their memory was false), and (2) rape victims who positively identified wrong person with 100% certainty. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3239 "2014-11-26T20:48:16Z")
The testimony that they fought over the pistol and that Brown had his hands on it. However, that testimony is backed up by forensics which indicates a bullet traveled from the tip of his right thumb up towards his wrist. There are no powder burns (stippling), however that’s not unusual on point blank injuries. There was foreign particulate matter in the wound consistent with a firearm discharge. He had to be close enough to the firearm to receive the foreign matter, so whether his fingerprints are on the gun is not as important. It does back up Wilson’s testimony that they were struggling over the pistol. There may have been no clear fingerprints even if the gun was fingerprinted. Depending on how you grab the gun you might or might not touch it with the pads of your hands, especially during the struggle where (if you are trying to take the gun away) you are probably wrapping your hand around the upper part of the weapon (as the possessor probably has the lower part/grip in their hand). Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3240 "2014-11-26T21:05:41Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Any witnesses? Yes, sure. For instance, there’s a witness who says Brown was charging at Wilson “football style” who is undeniably lying about even being there. And there are witnesses who said Brown was shot after he was lying on the ground. What’s your point, there are like 20 something witnesses. Some of them gave statements that are contradicted by the physical evidence. But there’s lots of witnesses who’s statements \*are \*consistent with the physical evidence. So now what? I think **Bricker’s** point is one carried from his previous post to that post. That is; That there is no evidence that contradicts Wilson’s statement. That there is evidence that contradicts many of the witness statements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=161) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=163)