# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/321 "2014-08-14T17:03:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > When you’re asked, by a cop, to stop videotaping and leave the place, asking “Am I not allowed to videotape the cops” as the reporter did is being a dick. He is not asked to stop videotaping the cops. He is asked to leave, which means stop what you’re doing (in this case, videotaping) and leave. To continue videotaping, while gathering your belongings with one hand, is to continue being a dick. So, journalists aren’t allowed to question authority then? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/322 "2014-08-14T17:04:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > …The no-fly zone was because people were _shooting at the fucking helicopters_… Never mind, **Magellan, Steophan** ’s got the cites! Please proceed with your citation… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/323 "2014-08-14T17:05:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > For those blaming the reporters, do you think we have an obligation to follow every order from the police? Yes, with the occasional exception. I mean, if the police asked you to kill someone else, or to perform a sex act on them, or whatever then obviously not. But anything along the lines of “go here, don’t go there, stay still” then absolutely, yes. > [@](#): > > Under what authority did the police order people out of McDonalds? No idea. Maybe they didn’t have that authority. So the reporters can sue them, or the state can charge them if it was criminal. Still doesn’t change the fact that they should have left. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/324 "2014-08-14T17:06:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > For those blaming the reporters, do you think we have an obligation to follow every order from the police? Yes. > [@](#): > > Under what authority did the police order people out of McDonalds? Their authority to protect the people in that McDonalds from the dangerous conditions around them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/325 "2014-08-14T17:08:24Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > So, journalists aren’t allowed to question authority then? So, journalists are above the law? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/326 "2014-08-14T17:08:32Z")
Oh, the _Daily Caller_! Well, at least it was somebody with some real journalistic credentials, someone who’s impartiality is assured! Did they have to prove that the helicopters were fired upon? What evidence did they offer? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/327 "2014-08-14T17:08:34Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > So, journalists aren’t allowed to question authority then? Sure they are. Being a dick is not a crime. On the other hand, by law, you don’t have to commit a crime to be detained by the police. As **Bricker** pointed out, all the police need is probable cause. Being a dick instead of obeying police ordering you to leave qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/328 "2014-08-14T17:08:53Z")
Rand Paul manages to [say](http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)something sensible: > [@Rand Paul](#): > > The outrage in Ferguson is understandable—though there is never an excuse for rioting or looting. There is a legitimate role for the police to keep the peace, but there should be a difference between a police response and a military response ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/329 "2014-08-14T17:09:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Never mind, **Magellan, Steophan** ’s got the cites! Please proceed with your citation… Why are you asking for cites for things that have already been cited in this thread? Surely not because you haven’t actually read it, but are instead attempting and, as usual failing, to troll people and get a laugh… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/330 "2014-08-14T17:11:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > … then absolutely, yes… You really should avoid using that word, “absolutely”. You should most likely avoid thinking it, it has very limited application… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/331 "2014-08-14T17:11:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, the _Daily Caller_! Well, at least it was somebody with some real journalistic credentials, someone who’s impartiality is assured! > > Did they have to prove that the helicopters were fired upon? What evidence did they offer? See, now that’s being a dick. [“On Sunday night our police helicopter came under fire on 3 or 4 occasions, so we requested that the FAA put up a no-fly zone for the safety of pilots who would be in the area,” St. Louis County Police Department Officer Brian Schellman told NBC News. The ban on flights is scheduled to last until Monday, Aug. 18.](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/michael-brown-death-no-fly-zone-enacted-over-missouri-town-n179011) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/332 "2014-08-14T17:11:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. > > Their authority to protect the people in that McDonalds from the dangerous conditions around them. So if you’re walking down the street and some cop yells “Give me five!” you’d start doing pushups? The restaurant was open. Unless the managment wanted to expel loiterers, the police had no business clearing it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/333 "2014-08-14T17:14:04Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Outrage is justified, but rioting, looting and other lawless behavior isn’t. This kind of behavior by the black community doesn’t do them any favors in the eyes of the rest of the country either. It perpetuates stereotypes of violence and criminality, and hardens a lot of hearts against them, which is the last thing you want to happen if you’re trying to get a fair shake by the other 84% of the country. > > And worse yet, people will see these jerks rioting and looting, and think “Hmm… if these are the people the Ferguson cops have to put up with on a daily basis, it’s not surprising that one might get shot by a cop.” Not that it’s right, but it’s what people will think. > > And what do they expect anyway? A public lynching of the cop? The guy’s under investigation, and will almost certainly stand trial. That’s the way the system works. > > Clearly there is something wrong in the country if young, unarmed black men keep getting shot by cops and other security types like George Zimmermann. But responsibility for this lies on BOTH sides; obviously there has to be something that young black men do that has cops frightened, angry or aggressive in a way that they’re not toward young white men or young hispanic men. Saying that it’s plain racism isn’t really productive either- there’s more to it than that, I suspect. :rolleyes:Sure, in much the same way that prmiscuous women who wear short skirts and too much make up have some culpability in all incidences of rape :rolleyes: You seem to be saying that all black men share the responsibility for the prejudices of cops ebcause SOME black men have done something to make cops afraid angry or aggressive. I don’t see why we need to be understanding of prejudice in our police. if cops are disproportionately killing unarmed black youths then you really can’t deflect any of the blame away from the cop because he has prejudices based on what other black guys have done. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/334 "2014-08-14T17:16:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Why are you asking for cites for things that have already been cited in this thread? Surely not because you haven’t actually read it, but are instead attempting and, as usual failing, to troll people and get a laugh… Who says helicopters were fired upon? With what weaponry were they fired upon? To what effect, are there bullet holes in the helicopters? Have you thought this through? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/335 "2014-08-14T17:17:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So if you’re walking down the street and some cop yells “Give me five!” you’d start doing pushups? I would assume first that he wanted a high-five. > [@](#): > > The restaurant was open. Unless the managment wanted to expel loiterers, the police had no business clearing it. The restaurant was in an area where rioting was occurring and where a building was burned down the same night. The police had every business ordering the crowd there to leave for their own safety. Had the cops not evacuated them, and later they came under attack and were injured or killed by rioters, no doubt the story would now be “POLICE STAND BY WHILE REPORTERS KILLED”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/336 "2014-08-14T17:18:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Who says helicopters were fired upon? With what weaponry were they fired upon? To what effect, are there bullet holes in the helicopters? Have you thought this through? So it doesn’t count as being fired on unless you get hit? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/337 "2014-08-14T17:19:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, journalists are above the law? I’m not saying they’re above the law. I’m just asking, are they not allowed to question authority figures? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/338 "2014-08-14T17:19:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So it doesn’t count as being fired on unless you get hit? Maybe he didn’t “think it through”. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/339 "2014-08-14T17:20:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I would assume first that he wanted a high-five. > > The restaurant was in an area where rioting was occurring and where a building was burned down the same night. The police had every business ordering the crowd there to leave for their own safety. Had the cops not evacuated them, and later they came under attack and were injured or killed by rioters, no doubt the story would now be “POLICE STAND BY WHILE REPORTERS KILLED”. If that’s the case, why didn’t they just close the restaurant altogether and tell the employees to go home? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/340 "2014-08-14T17:21:10Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I’m not saying they’re above the law. I’m just asking, are they not allowed to question authority figures? Yes they are. As long as we’re “just asking”, are the police allowed to detain people, with “probable cause”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=18)