# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 180
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3581 "2014-12-02T03:49:07Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > To be honest, I think the very people who are bothered by a prosecutor not doing enough to obtain a true bill in this case would be some of the first to condemn it in almost any other case. But that’s besides the point. I don’t think it’s besides the point. Because you need to consider what the world would be like if prosecutors brought in front of a GJ everyone who they thought they could get the GJ to indict (only to be acquitted at trial). It would result in an enormous increase in the number of innocent people suffering through trials, being ruined by legal fees, living in fear etc. etc., not to mention the enormous strain on the judicial system. I don’t think many people would genuinely want this for society. It’s only by looking at the Brown/Wilson case in total isolation that people are able to adopt this stance. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3582 "2014-12-02T03:52:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think it’s besides the point. > > Because you need to consider what the world would be like if prosecutors brought in front of a GJ everyone who they thought they could get the GJ to indict (only to be acquitted at trial)… Not that anyone has advocated anything remotely like that, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3583 "2014-12-02T03:54:00Z")
Exactly. That’s the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3584 "2014-12-02T03:56:13Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3585 "2014-12-02T03:56:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [St. Louis cops demand that Rams players be punished for “Hands up, don’t shoot” entrance.](http://www.salon.com/2014/12/01/st_louis_cops_demand_that_rams_players_be_punished_for_hands_up_dont_shoot_entrance/) As I pointed out in another thread, this is not the “St. Louis cops”. It is the St. Louis Police Officers Association, which is a non-profit lobbying organization affiliated with neither the St. Louis Police department nor the St. Louis County Police. The statement was delivered by Jeff Roorda, a corrupt ex-cop who was fired for repeatedly lying. As far as I know, no actual St. Louis police officer has commented on the issue at all. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3586 "2014-12-02T04:03:36Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’ve pointed out what is wrong with this thinking twice before, but apparently it didn’t sink in. Didn’t even land, because I haven’t been able to read all the posts in this thread today. Apologies for missing your post, I’ll come back to it. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3587 "2014-12-02T04:06:40Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Not that anyone has advocated anything remotely like that, of course. No, they haven’t. That would be a foolish thing to advocate, but would at least have the virtue of being a coherent moral stance. “Prosecution should work one way when the people I favor are on trial, and another way when the people I don’t favor are on trial” is something else. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3588 "2014-12-02T04:42:08Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > … But that’s neither here nor there. So, it is an _irrelevant_ insinuation of hypocrisy? Thank you for sharing with the group. We are enriched. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3589 "2014-12-02T06:02:14Z")
Another question that causes me to ponder: why was Officer Wilson chasing Brown unless he intended to use his gun? We are told he was much threatened by Browns diabolical physical strength, such that he was compelled to pull his gun in the first place, reasonable fear for his life. Then Brown runs, and he chases him on foot. To what end? He did not fire at the fleeing Brown, of this we are assured, but chased him on foot to…what? Tackle him and wrestle him to the ground and cuff him? OK, he pulled his gun fearing etc. Brown flees, imminent threat abates. Wilson pursues, but not firing, because that ain’t legal. But if he catches him, he is provoking the same potentially lethal situation he just avoided! He’s not using his pistol, because its against the law, but he is chasing Brown (who, at 300 lbs, most likely can’t run very far…) which very likely will result in him being, once again, in reasonable fear etc. Officer Wilson was insistent that he did not wish to shoot Mr Brown, the necessity was forced upon him. So why chase him? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3590 "2014-12-02T06:05:07Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > You either have a cavalier attitude toward homicide, or some really hardcore pranksters in your neighborhood. Isn’t that the price of freedom in Guntopia? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3591 "2014-12-02T06:59:01Z")
Warning: liberal blog link ahead. [Someone compared Wilson’s testimony with purported audio of the shooting,](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/01/1348720/-The-audio-recording-of-the-Michael-Brown-shooting-proves-Darren-Wilson-s-story-is-false) and came to the conclusion that it proves that Wilson’s story contradicts this evidence. The weak link, of course, is in the source of the audio, but it does seem interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3592 "2014-12-02T08:01:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Officer Wilson was insistent that he did not wish to shoot Mr Brown, the necessity was forced upon him. So why chase him? Seriously? Why did the cop chase the suspected criminal? _That’s_ a question you need answering? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3593 "2014-12-02T11:49:52Z")
Yes, yes I am. And sneering at the question is your answer. Thank you, that will be all. Don’t want to keep you, you must have so much to do. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3594 "2014-12-02T12:40:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Another question that causes me to ponder: why was Officer Wilson chasing Brown unless he intended to use his gun?.. Officer Wilson was insistent that he did not wish to shoot Mr Brown, the necessity was forced upon him. So why chase him? …because that’s his _job_? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3595 "2014-12-02T13:11:00Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Warning: liberal blog link ahead. > > [Someone compared Wilson’s testimony with purported audio of the shooting,](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/01/1348720/-The-audio-recording-of-the-Michael-Brown-shooting-proves-Darren-Wilson-s-story-is-false) and came to the conclusion that it proves that Wilson’s story contradicts this evidence. > > The weak link, of course, is in the source of the audio, but it does seem interesting. From your link: “As Wilson (almost certainly a faster runner) gained on Brown, Wilson fired the first six shots toward Brown’s back. Brown, realizing that Wilson was attempting to kill him, stopped fleeing and turned around. He raised his hands in surrender and began to walk slowly toward Wilson. (It’s important to note that the blood trail did show Brown moved a total of 25 feet back in the direction of Wilson before his body came to rest in the street.)” Once again: Brown was hit 6 times. The second group of shots was 4 shots. Even if EVERY one of those hit Brown, that means that at least two of the first group of shots (the “first six shots” from your link) hit Brown. All 6 hits on Brown were in front. Thus the statement above from your link cannot be true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3596 "2014-12-02T13:14:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > From your link: > “As Wilson (almost certainly a faster runner) gained on Brown, Wilson fired the first six shots toward Brown’s back. Brown, realizing that Wilson was attempting to kill him, stopped fleeing and turned around. He raised his hands in surrender and began to walk slowly toward Wilson. (It’s important to note that the blood trail did show Brown moved a total of 25 feet back in the direction of Wilson before his body came to rest in the street.)” > > Once again: Brown was hit 6 times. The second group of shots was 4 shots. Even if EVERY one of those hit Brown, that means that at least two of the first group of shots (the “first six shots” from your link) hit Brown. All 6 hits on Brown were in front. Thus the statement above from your link cannot be true. How does this refute that statement? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3597 "2014-12-02T13:29:04Z")
Both sides are believing what they want to believe. It’s like the facts don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3598 "2014-12-02T13:46:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How does this refute that statement? [QUOTE=Terr] Brown was hit 6 times. The second group of shots was 4 shots. Even if EVERY one of those hit Brown, that means that at least two of the first group of shots (the “first six shots” from your link) hit Brown. All 6 hits on Brown were in front. [/QUOTE] If Wilson fired six shots at Brown’s back, and Brown was not hit from the back, then the six shots must have missed. But Brown was hit six times, out of a total of 10 shots fired by Wilson. Since Wilson fired four more shots, all from the front, if the shots fired from behind all missed, Brown could not have been hit six times. But Brown **was** hit six times. Therefore, two of the first burst must have hit, and, since Brown was not shot from behind, then those two shots at least could not have been fired at Brown’s back. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3599 "2014-12-02T13:56:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Wilson fired six shots at Brown’s back, and Brown was not hit from the back, then the six shots must have missed. But Brown was hit six times, out of a total of 10 shots fired by Wilson. Since Wilson fired four more shots, all from the front, if the shots fired from behind all missed, Brown could not have been hit six times. But Brown **was** hit six times. Therefore, two of the first burst must have hit, and, since Brown was not shot from behind, then those two shots at least could not have been fired at Brown’s back. > > Regards, > Shodan Thank you. It’s also possible (or consistent with the evidence) that he turned during the first volley, and could have been hit (in the front) by the tail end of the first volley. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3600 "2014-12-02T14:34:13Z")
The statement “Wilson fired six shots at Brown’s back” has still been refuted. And the blood evidence demonstrates that Brown was moving towards Wilson when he was shot. Which is further evidence that Wilson did not fire at Brown’s back. **Terr** has covered this as well. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=179) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=181)