# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 191
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3801 "2015-01-26T17:08:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yes, she could! Its just not yet the right time to reveal herself. Gaaah… Mine eyes, mine eyes. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3802 "2015-04-20T17:14:43Z")
On Saturday, the Black Caucus of the American Library Association planted a memorial tree to Michael Brown along a walking trail in January-Wabash Park in Ferguson. [Within 24 hours, the tree was cut down and the memorial stone is missing.](http://www.kmov.com/story/28842731/memorial-tree-for-michael-brown-cut-in-half-stone-memorial-missing) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3803 "2015-04-20T17:43:44Z")
Why don’t we plant a memorial tree for Tamerlan Tsarnaev while we’re at it? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3804 "2015-04-20T18:46:31Z")
Perhaps we should. If someone who bombs a marathon race with resulting death and mutilation is equivalent to a guy whose worst crime was stealing a pack of Swisher Sweets, that is. Or maybe you’d like to re-examine the stupidity and insensitivity of your statement. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3805 "2015-04-20T18:56:15Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Perhaps we should. If someone who bombs a marathon race with resulting death and mutilation is equivalent to a guy whose worst crime was stealing a pack of Swisher Sweets, that is. Most people consider strong-arm robbery and attacking police officers who are trying lawfully to arrest you to be worse crimes than stealing cigars, so I am not sure who you are talking about. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3806 "2015-04-20T19:00:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Most people consider strong-arm robbery and attacking police officers who are trying lawfully to arrest you to be worse crimes than stealing cigars, so I am not sure who you are talking about. Do those people also equate robbery and assault to terroristic mass murder? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3807 "2015-04-20T19:10:23Z")
In general, no, I would expect not. In the specialized sense of “let’s not lie about what he did and pretend he deserves a memorial plaque”, then yes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3808 "2015-04-20T19:18:19Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Or maybe you’d like to re-examine the stupidity and insensitivity of your statement. What, specifically, about Michael Brown deserves memorializing? His drug habit? His strongarm robbery of a hard-working businessman? His trying to steal a cop’s gun and telling the cop that he’s too pussy to shoot? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3809 "2015-04-20T19:29:05Z")
Yep. It’s distasteful to treat him like a martyr, and disrespectful to those who actually did die fighting for rights and freedoms, not robbing a shop and resisting arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3810 "2015-04-20T19:46:38Z")
Lets look on the bright side. That is one less tree that those evil white racist cops can lynch a poor innocent black man with. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3811 "2015-04-20T19:51:00Z")
Wrong thread… ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3812 "2015-04-20T19:55:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What, specifically, about Michael Brown deserves memorializing? > > His drug habit? His strongarm robbery of a hard-working businessman? His trying to steal a cop’s gun and telling the cop that he’s too pussy to shoot? It wasn’t I who gave him a memorial; that was the Black Caucus of the American Library Association, for reasons they believed sufficient. Nor was it I who equated his crimes with those of a terrorist murderer; that was you, for reasons I cannot, and probably do not wish to, comprehend. Brown smoked weed, as do quite a number of other Americans. Why, I’ve been known to do that myself. In some jurisdictions that’s a crime; in others, not. Too bad for Brown he lived in that jurisdiction. I’ll give you “strong arm robbery” although attaching that name adds quite a bit more spin to the action of taking a handful and daring the shopkeeper to take them back. But “trying to steal a cop’s gun” is a stretcher. Cop pulled his car up next to two “boys” walking in the street, and commanded them to do something (get out of the street, or come over here and talk to me, we’ll never know which) out his open window. When Brown reached said window, cop removed his gun from his holster. I’m a strong believer that this was for intimidation. After all, cops normally don’t effect arrests at gunpoint through the windows of their patrol cars. Likely cop recognized Brown as a possible suspect in that strong arm Swisher heist, and also recognized that Brown was a bigger “boy” than cop was comfortable with, and felt better with his gun in his hand. Brown saw the gun and, not having read all the SDMB threads about unwarranted cop killings of civilians, taunted cop with a “You’re not gonna shoot me!”. Cop, being trained in the bullying tradition of his town’s police force, raised the gun as if, by gawd, he really would. Brown, realizing now that he actually might, grabbed for it and wrestled to prevent cop from shooting him through the window. Gun went off and Brown ran down the street. At least that’s how I envision the interaction. At any rate, nothing in this entire crime spree rises to the level of, nor rises within several orders of magnitude of, the actions of the Marathon Bombers. The fact that you see some moral equivalence between them is sad. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3813 "2015-04-20T20:09:47Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > At least that’s how I envision the interaction. Back in November, I seem to recall that you were one of the folks who “envisioned” the interaction as supporting an indictment, a stance that the Justice Department report seems to have shown was not correct. Based on that, why is your “vision” particularly compelling? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3814 "2015-04-20T20:12:54Z")
Maybe it just seems that way. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3815 "2015-04-20T20:13:02Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > It wasn’t I who gave him a memorial; that was the Black Caucus of the American Library Association, for reasons they believed sufficient. Reasons which you evidently agree with, as you have deemed fit to label the removal of said memorial pitworthy. > [@](#): > > Nor was it I who equated his crimes with those of a terrorist murderer; that was you, for reasons I cannot, and probably do not wish to, comprehend. The only difference between Brown and Tsarnaev is that when Brown tried to murder an American citizen, he failed. > [@](#): > > Brown smoked weed, as do quite a number of other Americans. Why, I’ve been known to do that myself. In some jurisdictions that’s a crime; in others, not. It is a crime in _all_ jurisdictions, the nullificationist acts of rebellion by a few anarchist states notwithstanding. > [@](#): > > But “trying to steal a cop’s gun” is a stretcher. It’s well attested to in the grand jury testimony that Brown attempted to wrestle Wilson’s gun away from him. > [@](#): > > Cop pulled his car up next to two “boys” walking in the street, and commanded them to do something (get out of the street, or come over here and talk to me, we’ll never know which) out his open window. He observed two men engaged in the commission of a crime and arrested them, you mean. > [@](#): > > When Brown reached said window, cop removed his gun from his holster. I’m a strong believer that this was for intimidation. Cops do not draw their weapons to intimidate. They draw their weapons to _kill_. > [@](#): > > Brown saw the gun and, not having read all the SDMB threads about unwarranted cop killings of civilians, taunted cop with a “You’re not gonna shoot me!”. And won himself a Darwin Award in the process. > [@](#): > > Cop, being trained in the bullying tradition of his town’s police force, raised the gun as if, by gawd, he really would. Yes, because defending yourself against an insane criminal is absolutely the dictionary definition of “bullying”. > [@](#): > > At any rate, nothing in this entire crime spree rises to the level of, nor rises within several orders of magnitude of, the actions of the Marathon Bombers. You don’t see how attempted murder of a peace officer is morally equivalent to terroristic murder? That’s your problem, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3816 "2015-04-20T20:34:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You don’t see how attempted murder of a peace officer is morally equivalent to terroristic murder? > > That’s your problem, not mine. Wait a minute. It is your view that getting into a fight with a police officer – not at all a good thing to do by my account, agreed – is less serious morally and criminally than setting off a bomb with the intent to murder many innocent civilians? Yeesh. Your reputation here isn’t an exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3817 "2015-04-20T20:38:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Back in November, I seem to recall that you were one of the folks who “envisioned” the interaction as supporting an indictment, a stance that the Justice Department report seems to have shown was not correct. > > Based on that, why is your “vision” particularly compelling? Close enough to my stance, though not strictly congruent. I believed that an indictment and a public trial, with both sides represented by vigorous advocates, was more likely to reveal “truth” (something close to an objective iteration of facts) than a grand jury who had all manner of evidence, innuendo, and misinformation thrown before them without the benefit of leadership from the prosecutor. I wanted a peer jury to be the finder of fact, not a Grand Jury. I still think this would have been better, even if it resulted in an acquittal. I personally would have been more comfortable with such an acquittal than with the Grand Jury’s failure to indict. That the Justice Department report seems to support this conclusion gives me some relief from the concern that a massive miscarriage of justice occurred. At least in regard to the actual shooting, if not the background between cops and black citizens in Ferguson. My vision of the earlier action at the patrol car is compelling, perhaps only to me. It seems to explain as many of the supposed “facts” as alternate scenarios, and it is more in line with my own life experiences involving petty hoods and cops. It may be wrong, but it may also be right. The idea that this petty criminal went out of his way to attempt to steal a cops gun, for no reason and with no apparent explanation, just doesn’t satisfy me. My vision makes more sense to me. Regardless, my vision of the actors’ actions at the police car would have no bearing on the legality or illegality of the final act in the play that occurred some moments, and some distance, away. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3818 "2015-04-20T20:47:23Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > It is your view that getting into a fight with a police officer – not at all a good thing to do by my account, agreed – is less serious morally and criminally than setting off a bomb with the intent to murder many innocent civilians? I do not understand the question as you have phrased it. Michael Brown and Tamerlan Tsarnaev both attempted to murder American citizens. One was successful, the other was not. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3819 "2015-04-20T20:51:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is a crime in _all_ jurisdictions, the nullificationist acts of rebellion by a few anarchist states notwithstanding. No, it’s a crime in all locations but not all jurisdictions. There’s no reason the States have to include copies of Federal laws on their books, or enforce Federal law. The idea that changing the law because of a majority view equates to “anarchy” is absurd. It’s actually “democracy”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3820 "2015-04-20T20:55:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The idea that changing the law because of a majority view equates to “anarchy” is absurd. It’s actually “democracy”. And it is one of the founding principles of this country that we have specifically _rejected_ democracy in favor of republicanism and the rule of law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=190) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=192)