# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 192
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3821 "2015-04-20T20:56:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And it is one of the founding principles of this country that we have specifically _rejected_ democracy in favor of republicanism and the rule of law. No, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3822 "2015-04-20T21:05:14Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, it isn’t. Yes, it is. That’s why we went to the trouble of creating a written constitution and Bill of Rights that’s deliberately near-impossible to amend - so that a mere majority opinion _couldn’t_ derive people of their freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3823 "2015-04-20T21:17:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, it is. That’s why we went to the trouble of creating a written constitution and Bill of Rights that’s deliberately near-impossible to amend - so that a mere majority opinion _couldn’t_ derive people of their freedom. Requiring a super-majority for a few things doesn’t mean that the system isn’t democratic, rather the opposite… and we’re not talking about depriving people of their freedom, but increasing that freedom, by removing an unnecessary and unpopular prohibition. “Democracy” and “Republic” mean almost the same thing - government by the people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3824 "2015-04-20T21:41:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > and we’re not talking about depriving people of their freedom, but increasing that freedom, by removing an unnecessary and unpopular prohibition. Were it an “unnecessary and unpopular prohibition”, Congress would have acted on it by now. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3825 "2015-04-20T21:56:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Were it an “unnecessary and unpopular prohibition”, Congress would have acted on it by now. Many Congresses and the equivalent have. By the end of the decade, the Federal one will. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3826 "2015-04-20T22:13:13Z")
Sheesh, some of you guys will take any position if it appears to support your world view. Brown was a petty thug who would cause many Dopers who support him in this thread to cross the street if they saw him coming. He didn’t deserve to die but he danced with trouble and pretending otherwise is stupid. Trying to compare him to Tsarnaev is more stupid. Tsarnaev purposefully targeted innocent people to die which is not something Brown–with all his faults–ever did. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3827 "2015-04-20T22:19:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > By the end of the decade, the Federal one will. And that’s the only one that matters. If and when they do act on marijuana I will welcome that decision. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3828 "2015-04-20T22:21:57Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Sheesh, some of you guys will take any position if it appears to support your world view. > > Brown was a petty thug who would cause many Dopers who support him in this thread to cross the street if they saw him coming. He didn’t deserve to die but he danced with trouble and pretending otherwise is stupid. > > Trying to compare him to Tsarnaev is more stupid. Tsarnaev purposefully targeted innocent people to die which is not something Brown–with all his faults–ever did. Lesson being… it’s the innocent-looking white guys you really have to worry about? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3829 "2015-04-21T00:14:25Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > But “trying to steal a cop’s gun” is a stretcher. Cop pulled his car up next to two “boys” walking in the street, and commanded them to do something (get out of the street, or come over here and talk to me, we’ll never know which) out his open window. When Brown reached said window, cop removed his gun from his holster. I’m a strong believer that this was for intimidation. After all, cops normally don’t effect arrests at gunpoint through the windows of their patrol cars. Likely cop recognized Brown as a possible suspect in that strong arm Swisher heist, and also recognized that Brown was a bigger “boy” than cop was comfortable with, and felt better with his gun in his hand. Brown saw the gun and, not having read all the SDMB threads about unwarranted cop killings of civilians, taunted cop with a “You’re not gonna shoot me!”. Cop, being trained in the bullying tradition of his town’s police force, raised the gun as if, by gawd, he really would. Brown, realizing now that he actually might, grabbed for it and wrestled to prevent cop from shooting him through the window. Gun went off and Brown ran down the street. At least that’s how I envision the interaction. It seems extremely unlikely to me that Wilson pulled his gun while inside his police car. If it were a standard sidearm, it would be awkward to draw and very difficult to aim from seated in a vehicle. LEO’s are trained to point their guns with their arms extended. Besides, what would be the point? Brown must have known that Wilson was a policeman and was presumably armed. How would brandishing his gun (something that police are specifically trained not to do) have helped Wilson? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3830 "2015-04-21T00:14:30Z")
\*\*GAME TIME! \*\* Fill in the blank: _Watching **Smapti** and **Steophan** argue is like \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_._ Winner gets a donut! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3831 "2015-04-21T00:30:27Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > He didn’t deserve to die but he danced with trouble and pretending otherwise is stupid. Nope. There is no “but.” He didn’t deserve to die. Period. And when that death came at the hands of an agent of a democratic government licensed to use deadly force in support of the public safety, it’s inexcusable. _He_ is part of the public that that officer is charged with protecting. There are no buts. There are no perfect victims. Just like in rape cases, it doesn’t matter at all what the faults of the victim are. You don’t examine his character. If what he did didn’t deserve death, then that’s the end of the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3832 "2015-04-21T01:26:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > On Saturday, the Black Caucus of the American Library Association planted a memorial tree to Michael Brown along a walking trail in January-Wabash Park in Ferguson. [Within 24 hours, the tree was cut down and the memorial stone is missing.](http://www.kmov.com/story/28842731/memorial-tree-for-michael-brown-cut-in-half-stone-memorial-missing) The tree was coming right for us! ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3833 "2015-04-21T03:17:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Nope. There is no “but.” He didn’t deserve to die. Period. And when that death came at the hands of an agent of a democratic government licensed to use deadly force in support of the public safety, it’s inexcusable. _He_ is part of the public that that officer is charged with protecting. Few people deserve to die but it occurs every day; shit happens. Brown was a petty thug who’s behavior made it more likely that he would be hit by shit. Don’t try to twist this around into blaming the victim by comparing it to rape. Brown’s actions before the shooting were **wrong** , unlike a rape victim. He was not a blameless angel. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3834 "2015-04-21T10:35:13Z")
Fuck “blameless angel.” Who ever said he or anyone else is s blameless angel? Who comes up with bullshit phrases like that? No one is a blameless angel. It’s irrelevant. He didn’t die from failing to be a blameless angel. He does because someone’s intentional act of shooting him. That’s not some automatic unavoidable consequence of angel failure. “People die every day” doesn’t apply to intentional killings by another person. It applies to accidents or acts of nature. You are the one who said Brown didn’t deserve to die. If that’s statement is taken as true then that’s the end of it. There’s no “but” after that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3835 "2015-04-21T12:05:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why don’t we plant a memorial tree for Tamerlan Tsarnaev while we’re at it? It’s a memorial, not a monument. Vandalizing it is like violating Brown’s grave. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3836 "2015-04-21T13:21:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Fuck “blameless angel.” Who ever said he or anyone else is s blameless angel? Who comes up with bullshit phrases like that? No one is a blameless angel. It’s irrelevant. > > He didn’t die from failing to be a blameless angel. He does because someone’s intentional act of shooting him. That’s not some automatic unavoidable consequence of angel failure. > > “People die every day” doesn’t apply to intentional killings by another person. It applies to accidents or acts of nature. > > You are the one who said Brown didn’t deserve to die. If that’s statement is taken as true then that’s the end of it. There’s no “but” after that. If you walk into a biker bar and call them all pussies, I would say that you don’t deserve to die. But I wouldn’t be outraged that it happened since your stupidity was a big contributing factor. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3837 "2015-04-21T13:54:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > On Saturday, the Black Caucus of the American Library Association planted a memorial tree to Michael Brown along a walking trail in January-Wabash Park in Ferguson. [Within 24 hours, the tree was cut down and the memorial stone is missing.](http://www.kmov.com/story/28842731/memorial-tree-for-michel-brown-cut-in-half-stone-memorial-missing) I suspect that the staff of the Rolling Stone is behind this. They don’t seem to have any standards. Or maybe it was another conspiracy between Tawana Brawley and Sharpton. During the suspected time of the theft, has anyone established that no CNN minions were in the area, attempting to increase their viewership and revenue? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3838 "2015-04-21T13:55:36Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > If you walk into a biker bar and call them all pussies, I would say that you don’t deserve to die. But I wouldn’t be outraged that it happened since your stupidity was a big contributing factor. Yup. Brown didn’t _deserve_ to die, but he did enough knuckleheaded stuff that sure made it a lot easier for Wilson to shoot him. It’s like if you’re crossing a 40 mph rated street at a green light and you get hit by a car going 60 with a driver texting while he drove. Yeah, the driver was speeding and texting, but you’re the idiot crossing the street at a green light. Who’s at fault here? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3839 "2015-04-21T13:55:47Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > If you walk into a biker bar and call them all pussies, I would say that you don’t deserve to die. But I wouldn’t be outraged that it happened since your stupidity was a big contributing factor. Assault is assault. My feelings don’t change based on a perception of the victim’s faults, whether it’s stupidity or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3840 "2015-04-21T14:00:52Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Yup. Brown didn’t _deserve_ to die, but he did enough knuckleheaded stuff that sure made it a lot easier for Wilson to shoot him. > > It’s like if you’re crossing a 40 mph rated street at a green light and you get hit by a car going 60 with a driver texting while he drove. Yeah, the driver was speeding and texting, but you’re the idiot crossing the street at a green light. Who’s at fault here? See post #3835. Even an idiot should be able to have a memorial. We see roadside memorials to traffic-accident victims all the time and I daresay a far portion of them died of their own idiocy; it would still be in very bad taste, wouldn’t it, to vandalize those memorials? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=191) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=193)