# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 193
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3841 "2015-04-21T14:03:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I suspect that the staff of the Rolling Stone is behind this. They don’t seem to have any standards. Or maybe it was another conspiracy between Tawana Brawley and Sharpton. During the suspected time of the theft, has anyone established that no CNN minions were in the area, attempting to increase their viewership and revenue? Please descend not into self-parody; it’s lame, it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3842 "2015-04-21T14:29:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Please descend not into self-parody; it’s lame, it doesn’t work. Self-parody? Do you know who vandalized the tree or stole the memorial stone? Are you vouching for the Rolling Stone staff? For Brawley and Sharpton? For the CNN minions? Maybe Dorian Johnson is hoping to get a little more public attention? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3843 "2015-04-21T16:41:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Self-parody? Do you know who vandalized the tree or stole the memorial stone? > > Are you vouching for the Rolling Stone staff? For Brawley and Sharpton? For the CNN minions? Maybe Dorian Johnson is hoping to get a little more public attention? It’s self-parody, or perhaps a better term would be trolling, because not even you believe a single word of that. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3844 "2015-04-21T16:54:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s self-parody, or perhaps a better term would be trolling, because not even you believe a single word of that. Could you provide a list of possible suspects? Does anyone have a list of possible suspects? Has anyone been cleared of this crime? Is everyone still a suspect? Has any organization, or individual, destroyed their own memorial in order to be given the opportunity to blame the other side? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3845 "2015-04-21T18:39:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Assault is assault. My feelings don’t change based on a perception of the victim’s faults, whether it’s stupidity or anything else. I’m wondering if you have children. I do. One would occasionally smack the other for no apparent reason. That one would get punished. Occasionally one would antagonize the other until the other snapped and hit him. Then BOTH would get punished. To just punish the attacker would only encourage the antagonist to continue to set up his brother. So, yes MY feelings would change based on the circumstances. My example is mild compared to the reality discussed here. It was given to explain why I can hate that MB got shot while understanding how his actions contributed to his death. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3846 "2015-04-21T18:54:25Z")
A minor nitpick - cops DO pull their guns in order to intimidate. It is know as “constructive authority”, at least where I’m from. Cops are not limited to pulling their guns only when they intend to shoot (not “kill” as the poster said), although it may come to that if people who think with their hearts rather than their heads have their way. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3847 "2015-04-21T21:03:26Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > If you walk into a biker bar and call them all pussies, I would say that you don’t deserve to die. But I wouldn’t be outraged that it happened since your stupidity was a big contributing factor. Why is stupidity a moral get-out clause? Generally I would have said that if a person is incapable of understanding the likely consequence of their actions, that would result in me being more sympathetic, rather than less. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3848 "2015-04-21T23:13:25Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Cops are not limited to pulling their guns only when they intend to shoot (not “kill” as the poster said) . . . To shoot at all is to shoot to kill. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3849 "2015-04-22T12:34:37Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Why is stupidity a moral get-out clause? Generally I would have said that if a person is incapable of understanding the likely consequence of their actions, that would result in me being more sympathetic, rather than less. incapable of understanding ≠ stupid Stupid - 1.lacking intelligence or common sense. If I were to sympathize for the biker bar victim for his stupidity shouldn’t I also sympathize for the biker for losing his temper? We can have a big sympathy-fest but the outcome would be the same as Ferguson - Two stupid people fighting over a gun usually results in one of them dead. I save my outrage for situations where the victim had no control over the situation. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3850 "2015-04-22T19:10:26Z")
To shoot at all is NOT to “Shoot to kill”. If cops intended to kill each time they fired there would be a lot more dead suspects. It may seem like ts only semantics but its more than that. If I am shooting, my intention is to stop you and once your are stopped (and I perceive it) I will stop shooting. If you happen to die, oh well. You should not have put me in fear of death or serious bodily harm. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3851 "2015-04-22T19:38:53Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > To shoot at all is NOT to "Shoot to kill. Why would you _ever_ shoot something you didn’t intend to kill? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3852 "2015-04-22T20:02:32Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > To shoot at all is NOT to “Shoot to kill”. If cops intended to kill each time they fired there would be a lot more dead suspects. It may seem like ts only semantics but its more than that. If I am shooting, my intention is to stop you and once your are stopped (and I perceive it) I will stop shooting. If you happen to die, oh well. You should not have put me in fear of death or serious bodily harm. I believe that you have it backwards. Every shot is to shoot to kill. If you happen to live, you got lucky. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3853 "2015-04-22T20:12:00Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > To shoot at all is NOT to “Shoot to kill”. The point is, there is no such thing as “shoot to wound.” If you shoot at a person, no matter at what body part, you are assuming the risk the shot will kill – by [hydrostatic schock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock), if nothing else. Or by nicking an artery. Cops might not mean to kill every time they **draw,** but we shoot assume deadly intent every time they **shoot.** ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3854 "2015-04-22T21:13:03Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > incapable of understanding ≠ stupid > > Stupid - 1.lacking intelligence or common sense. I would sympathise with someone who comes to fault because of their lack of intelligence or common sense. > [@](#): > > If I were to sympathize for the biker bar victim for his stupidity shouldn’t I also sympathize for the biker for losing his temper? What harm has he come to? > [@](#): > > We can have a big sympathy-fest but the outcome would be the same as Ferguson - Two stupid people fighting over a gun usually results in one of them dead. I save my outrage for situations where the victim had no control over the situation. Lacking intelligence and common sense seems like a very good way to find oneself unable to control a situation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3855 "2015-04-22T21:31:29Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Lacking intelligence and common sense seems like a very good way to find oneself unable to control a situation. And that’s why cops should not be allowed to carry guns. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3856 "2015-04-22T21:36:29Z")
It’s silly, but I feel in some way as though I contributed to that. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3857 "2015-04-22T23:57:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Fuck “blameless angel.” Who ever said he or anyone else is s blameless angel? Who comes up with bullshit phrases like that? No one is a blameless angel. It’s irrelevant. You’re the one who compared Brown to a rape victim which indicates you think him blameless. He is objectively not blameless–he robbed a convenience store at the very least and confronted a police officer who was investigating the robbery. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3858 "2015-04-23T00:32:02Z")
Nope I certainly did not. What I said was that it was irrelevant. Is extrajudicial summary execution a legal and appropriate punishment for the robbery? No? Then it’s irrelevant. Do we give beat cops the authority to determine guilt, sentence, and execute a sentence without legal process? No? Then it’s irrelevant. Whether he robbed a convenience store or not is irrelevant. Nothing he did in his life before his encounter with the cop in the street is relevant. That’s what makes it analogous to a rape case. Not that he lived s blameless life—nobody does anyway—but that not being blameless is not required of anyone in order to avoid getting killed—when, as you said, he didn’t deserve it—by a servant of the public. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3859 "2015-04-23T01:02:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Is extrajudicial summary execution a legal and appropriate punishment for the robbery? No? Then it’s irrelevant. Since that is not what happened then I’d have to say your argument is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/3860 "2015-04-23T01:17:29Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Since that is not what happened then I’d have to say your argument is irrelevant. If you are going to bring up “blamelessness” or the lack thereof or anything at all about Brown’s background or character or past actions, then it’s relevant, because you are saying that it justified his being killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=192)