# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/21 "2014-08-12T14:35:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Leave it to the right-wing racist assholes to make the story about the looters, not about the innocent unarmed teenager shot dead by police. Of course the story is about the looters. What are we supposed to do? Not mention the rioting because… racism, or something? For you to call people looting and rioting “victims” is off base, even if an innocent kid got shot. That doesn’t justify burning down stores and theft. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/22 "2014-08-12T14:50:46Z")
Pretty much everyone interviewed on local news – family and friends of the victim, Ferguson inhabitants – are convinced that the rioters and looters were outsiders to the community who used the killing as a pretext for greed. They didn’t riot because they wanted to protest the police; they rioted because they wanted to steal stuff. The victim’s family is annoyed/angry that the riot has taken the focus entirely off the actual killing. So they’re none too happy about it. Ferguson police reaction has been kinda odd to the whole thing, too; they’ve had the FAA impose a No-Fly zone over all of Ferguson until Thursday for… reasons. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/23 "2014-08-12T14:52:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Clearly there is something wrong in the country if young, unarmed black men keep getting shot by cops and other security types like George Zimmermann. But responsibility for this lies on BOTH sides; obviously there has to be something that young black men do that has cops frightened, angry or aggressive in a way that they’re not toward young white men or young hispanic men. Saying that it’s plain racism isn’t really productive either- there’s more to it than that, I suspect. Young black men are getting shot and killed by the police for the same reason that they got lynched back in the Jim Crow days and were enslaved for centuries before then. Racism has never made sense, so stop trying to rationalize this shit away. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/24 "2014-08-12T15:13:49Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Ferguson police reaction has been kinda odd to the whole thing, too; they’ve had the FAA impose a No-Fly zone over all of Ferguson until Thursday for… reasons. That is kind of odd. I hadn’t heard that. I guess they don’t want media helicopters getting in the way of police helicopters or something? In a couple articles I read, it was reported that the officer shot Brown as he was running away. But I don’t know if that is known for sure at this point. ETA: Ah, I just read the MSN article linked above. If it’s accurate, well, shit. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/25 "2014-08-12T15:16:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s not fair, but it is human nature to think “if the kid was anything like the looters, he got what he deserved.” Wow, no. That’s absolutely not human nature to think that. If that’s how you find yourself thinking, you should seriously consider counseling. ---
**Author:** ![Kobalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/41988e/32.png) [@Kobalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobalt)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/26 "2014-08-12T15:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Ferguson police reaction has been kinda odd to the whole thing, too; they’ve had the FAA impose a No-Fly zone over all of Ferguson until Thursday for… reasons. The local news stations have reported that a police helicopter came under fire at least once during the rioting. Maybe the Ferguson police are trying to keep news choppers from being shot at, as well? Also Ferguson lies just east of Lambert-St. Louis airport. It would be a million-to-one chance of a stray bullet hitting a plane on aproach or takeoff, but I can see the authorities wanting to minimize even that small risk. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/27 "2014-08-12T16:26:58Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > I’ve always thought the difference lies in the emotion. It is understandable that someone would do something out of anger that is completely unjustified. There is that “someone” thing. Would YOU loot and set fire to stores “out of anger”? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/28 "2014-08-12T16:28:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I acknowledge that I could make a morally incorrect choice in many circumstances. I would hope I’d be stronger than the mob mentality, but maybe I wouldn’t be. I know I’ve given into temptation before. So - it is possible that you would loot and set buildings on fire, out of anger at police? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/29 "2014-08-12T16:29:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Young black men are getting shot and killed by the police for the same reason that they got lynched back in the Jim Crow days and were enslaved for centuries before then. > > Racism has never made sense, so stop trying to rationalize this shit away. So it’s just racism, plain and simple, and the black community and young black men are totally innocent of ever doing anything that antagonizes cops or causes undue scrutiny? I don’t buy that for a moment. I’m not saying it’s their fault, but I"m saying that where there are two sides to every coin, and that looking at it dispassionately, it would appear that there’s more going on than simple racism on the part of asshole cops. If it was simple racism, you’d see it happening similarly to hispanic males, white males (by minority cops), asian males, middle eastern males and anyone else. But it seems to happen disproportionately to young black men, which leads me to believe that there’s more than just racism going on here, and that just attributing it to that without acknowledging that there may be factors beyond that is not helping solve the problem because it deflects all responsibility and blame onto one side of the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/30 "2014-08-12T16:29:38Z")
Nobody looted and torched a convenience store out of anger. They looted and torched them because the police were busy, and it served as a convenient excuse. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/31 "2014-08-12T16:30:00Z")
Duh, looters exploit riots. In other news, dog bites man in Idaho. Duh. What a bunch of dolts some of you are. > [@Debaser](#): > > For you to call people looting and rioting “victims” is off base, even if an innocent kid got shot. That doesn’t justify burning down stores and theft. That you pretend I called the looters victims shows how much your head is stuck up your ass. [Cops in Antioch, Calif. brutalize a mentally ill man.](http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/homeless-man-talks-about-alleged-antioch-police-br/ngyhk/) [In New York City, an unarmed man is choked to death by cops for selling cigarettes](http://rt.com/usa/179752-nyc-police-choke-cameras/). [Near Los Angeles, a cop brutalizes a homeless woman for jaywalking.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXF3hf87emk) These are just a few recent stories that showed up quickly with Google. Yet the take-away lesson by some Dopers is about looting, and, I suppose, the need for more police brutality to combat looting. Sheeeez. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/32 "2014-08-12T16:38:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t buy that for a moment. I’m not saying it’s their fault, but I"m saying that where there are two sides to every coin, and that looking at it dispassionately, it would appear that there’s more going on than simple racism on the part of asshole cops. If it was simple racism, you’d see it happening similarly to hispanic males, white males (by minority cops), asian males, middle eastern males and anyone else. It’s almost like there was something ingrained in American history, whereby black men were treated differently than Hispanic men, Asian men, Middle Eastern men, or other minorities, isn’t it? Whatever could that be… ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/33 "2014-08-12T17:02:51Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Young black men are getting shot and killed by the police for the same reason that they got lynched back in the Jim Crow days and were enslaved for centuries before then. > > Racism has never made sense, so stop trying to rationalize this shit away. How did it not make sense in the past? Makes perfect sense if you think about it. What is a European supposed to think when he encounters Africans or Native Americans who have no sophisticated civilization, do not have gun powder, do not have sophisticated armor, do not have well made steel weapons, do not have the ability to travel the oceans etc. On top of that these same Europeans have been taught that Christianity is unassailable in its correctness, that God/Christ’s message and belief in it is the _only thing_ redeeming them as human beings and that anyone who doesn’t buy into it is a heathen worthy of little more than being put to the sword. Racial equality does not make sense given available evidence in the past. It took a lot of biology, understanding of anthropology, history etc to get us to the point where a reasonable person wouldn’t be racist. I remember a thread about Kant in which he was criticized based on his views of blacks–but Kant lived in the 1700s and almost certainly never met a black person. When all he has to go on are traveler accounts in which they are described as basically cave people, I’m not sure what conclusions a smart guy like Kant is supposed to come to on his own. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/34 "2014-08-12T18:01:42Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So it’s just racism, plain and simple, and the black community and young black men are totally innocent of ever doing anything that antagonizes cops or causes undue scrutiny? > > I don’t buy that for a moment. I’m not saying it’s their fault, but I"m saying that where there are two sides to every coin, and that looking at it dispassionately, it would appear that there’s more going on than simple racism on the part of asshole cops. If it was simple racism, you’d see it happening similarly to hispanic males, white males (by minority cops), asian males, middle eastern males and anyone else. > > But it seems to happen disproportionately to young black men, which leads me to believe that there’s more than just racism going on here, and that just attributing it to that without acknowledging that there may be factors beyond that is not helping solve the problem because it deflects all responsibility and blame onto one side of the equation. Racism isn’t often wanting to kill other races so that your “team” will “win.” Racism is more commonly believing the common stereotypes about different races. It’s believing that black men are thugs, Asian men are nerdy, middle eastern men are terrorists, etc. The media/mainstream racist view of black men is that they are threatening and violent. A black guy doing something will be seen as more threatening than a white guy doing the same thing by many racists. Police officers tend to react violently towards people they view as threatening, so the stereotype of violent black men leads to more police violence against black men than against other races. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/35 "2014-08-12T18:09:13Z")
Looting only hurts people who had nothing to do with the incident. It’s nonsensical. Looting mentality: “I’m furious at the cops! How will I express my anger? By attacking some unrelated small business!” ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/36 "2014-08-12T18:10:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So it’s just racism, plain and simple, and the black community and young black men are totally innocent of ever doing anything that antagonizes cops or causes undue scrutiny? > > I don’t buy that for a moment. I’m not saying it’s their fault, but I"m saying that where there are two sides to every coin, and that looking at it dispassionately, it would appear that there’s more going on than simple racism on the part of asshole cops. If it was simple racism, you’d see it happening similarly to hispanic males, white males (by minority cops), asian males, middle eastern males and anyone else. > > But it seems to happen disproportionately to young black men, which leads me to believe that there’s more than just racism going on here, and that just attributing it to that without acknowledging that there may be factors beyond that is not helping solve the problem because it deflects all responsibility and blame onto one side of the equation. One particular black kid does not share in the “responsibility and blame” for race relations in America. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/37 "2014-08-12T18:15:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Looting only hurts people who had nothing to do with the incident. It’s nonsensical. > Looting mentality: “I’m furious at the cops! How will I express my anger? By attacking some unrelated small business!” Most of the protesters probably did not loot or do anything violent. It’s always a small percentage of bad-actors in cases like this. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/38 "2014-08-12T18:17:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most of the protesters probably did not loot or do anything violent. It’s always a small percentage of bad-actors in cases like this. Agree, but it’s still nonsensical. Person A is angry at Person B, therefore he attacks Person C. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/39 "2014-08-12T18:56:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > That you pretend I called the looters victims shows how much your head is stuck up your ass. Hey, you said this: > [@septimus](#): > > Once again, let’s all blame the victims. > > Leave it to the right-wing racist assholes to make the story about the looters, not about the innocent unarmed teenager shot dead by police. Who were you referring to with the “victims” if not the looters? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/40 "2014-08-12T18:57:13Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Leave it to the right-wing racist assholes to make the story about the looters, not about the innocent unarmed teenager shot dead by police. It’s pretty clear that the rioters and looters are in the wrong. There is an ongoing investigation about the shooting and I’m not sure it’s clear that there was wrongdoing there. What are they supposed to cover - we’re waiting for more facts on the ongoing investigation, but ignore the people going batshit crazy over there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=3)