# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/381 "2014-08-14T18:15:15Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Some of the reporters turned away have been present in actual warzones, Like in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are fine with the danger. Freedom of the press means they get to decide that for themselves. No, freedom of the press means the government can’t censor their publications. It doesn’t give then the authority to overrule a police officer who says the area is unsafe. By your logic, I could buy a domain called [smaptistotallylegitnews.com](http://smaptistotallylegitnews.com) (not a real link), make myself a press pass at Kinko’s, and demand that I be allowed to go anywhere I wanted whether I had a right to or not because freedom of the press means I get to decide for myself. > [@](#): > > No one in the McDonald’s had a Molotov Cocktail. No one in there was setting fires. _Yet._ There had been arsons in that area on previous nights and on on that block that night. What tune would you be singing if the cops had left them alone, and later on some thugs barricaded them in and burned the place to the ground? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/382 "2014-08-14T18:21:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > After all, it’s not as if the local police don’t have any experience shooting people. They seem to be very good at it. Mostly when they can’t shoot back. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/383 "2014-08-14T18:21:47Z")
What Smapti seems to be assuming is that the police were acting in the public interest. That train left the station long ago. These cops are nothing more than armed thugs terrorizing the populace. Which is why the governor is removing the county cops from the area. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/384 "2014-08-14T18:25:14Z")
Yeah. That sends a great message across the country. Don’t like your local cops? Throw enough Molotov Cocktails at them and they’ll go away and you can get new ones! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/385 "2014-08-14T18:26:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What Smapti seems to be assuming is that the police were acting in the public interest. That train left the station long ago. These cops are nothing more than armed thugs terrorizing the populace. Which is why the governor is removing the county cops from the area. No, the cops are protecting the populace from terrorists. The governor is bowing to political pressure from the pro-terror lobby. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/386 "2014-08-14T18:27:18Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yeah. That sends a great message across the country. Don’t like your local cops? Throw enough Molotov Cocktails at them and they’ll go away and you can get new ones! Precisely. This is a victory for lawlessness and a loss for he American people and the people of Ferguson in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/387 "2014-08-14T18:28:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Mostly when they can’t shoot back. If the people couldn’t shoot back, the cops wouldn’t need to carry guns most of the time. Once again, Big Gun and its useful idiots on the right have blood on their hands. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/388 "2014-08-14T18:29:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Richard Benjamin writes:](http://www.salon.com/2014/08/14/release_the_officers_name_its_time_to_stop_shielding_michael_browns_killer/) That Benjamin guy comes off as a moron.The only thing releasing the cop’s name would do is make his family’s life a living hell, and possibly start another riot zone. It’s not going to help anyone or anything. Benjamin’s chief point seems to be that the media and government are now busy looking for ways to defame and demonize the shooting victim, while the cop doesn’t have to endure that. I think there will be plenty of time to demonize the policeman is it turns out to be needed. And while my own preliminary view of the shooting has no bearing on this issue (releasing the cop’s name), I’ll say it doesn’t look good that the victim was shot repeatedly in the back… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/389 "2014-08-14T18:29:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why do you ask? You haven’t given us a cite saying that police helicopters were fired upon. Us? What do you have to do with anything that is not a discussion about who is the most useless poster on the Dope? The one that has the lowest content to word ratio? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/390 "2014-08-14T18:32:50Z")
The cop’s life, and the lives of his family, are in danger if his name is revealed. It’s for everyone’s good that he remain anonymous until well after Ferguson has been pacified and an investigation into the shooting has been completed. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/391 "2014-08-14T18:36:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > When you’re asked, by a cop, to stop videotaping and leave the place, asking “Am I not allowed to videotape the cops” as the reporter did is being a dick. He is not asked to stop videotaping the cops. He is asked to leave, which means stop what you’re doing (in this case, videotaping) and leave. To continue videotaping, while gathering your belongings with one hand, is to continue being a dick. > [@Terr](#): > > On the other hand, by law, you don’t have to commit a crime to be detained by the police. As Bricker pointed out, all the police need is probable cause. Being a dick instead of obeying police ordering you to leave qualifies. Uh, no. If a cop gives you an unlawful, unconstitutional order, you are permitted to ask him to reconsider without it creating probable cause for your arrest. Moreover, your dichotemy between “committing a crime” and “probable cause” makes no sense. The police must have probable cause _that you committed a crime_. It is not a crime to be a dick, even if you think this reporter was being a dick. According to his account, he started recording with his cell phone while gathering his things to leave. Then he was given conflicting orders about which way to go, and when he stopped to adjust his hastily-gathered backpack he was arrested. If that account is true, the police did not have probable cause that a crime was committed. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/392 "2014-08-14T18:36:49Z")
Can’t someone please tell me what is the upside of releasing the cop’s name? What positive outcome do you foresee? And how do you think that stacks up to negative outcomes? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/393 "2014-08-14T18:38:55Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > You mean like at Clive Bundy’s ranch? > > > [@Steophan](#): > > > > Well, that’s subtly different in that, in that case, it was the government that were the thugs and looters. {…} :eek: :rolleyes: CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/394 "2014-08-14T18:39:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As I said, “understandable” does not mean “justified” only if you think that it is not possible for you to behave that way. And then that means that the person you’re talking about is lesser, morally and ethically, than you. Like I said, thats not necessarily what’s going on here but if someone murdered my family and he was captured alive, I would not be justified in killing him but it would be understandable if I did. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/395 "2014-08-14T18:40:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Uh, no. If a cop gives you an unlawful, unconstitutional order, you are permitted to ask him to reconsider without it creating probable cause for your arrest. Would you say that this is true in all cases. For me what works on a calm day in Mayberry, or an ordinary day in an ordinary town, doesn’t necessarily work in, or on the perimeter of a riot zone. Would you agree with that? Seems to me that cops need flexibility. Imagine trying to clear an area of a hundred people and each of the hundred wants to have a debate about one’s constitutional rights, local ordinances and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/396 "2014-08-14T18:42:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Can’t someone please tell me what is the upside of releasing the cop’s name? What positive outcome do you foresee? And how do you think that stacks up to negative outcomes? I think if there have been specific and credible threats made against the cop that it’s not unreasonable to protect his name, even though that is almost certainly giving him special treatment. I doubt that George Zimmerman would have been given the same protection, for example. That said, I can still see the upside in releasing it. It allows the public to investigate his background. Maybe he’s been involved in three other questionable shootings. Or maybe he’s posted a bunch of racist YouTube videos. Any of that would be relevant to, say, whether the police department should suspend him without pay during the investigation of this shooting, which is something public pressure might result in. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/397 "2014-08-14T18:44:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If the people couldn’t shoot back, the cops wouldn’t need to carry guns most of the time. Once again, Big Gun and its useful idiots on the right have blood on their hands. “Big Gun”? Is the anti-gun lobby trying to coin a phrase or something? It sounds kinda silly. I’m pretty lefty and I think gun rights are pretty important for common citizens. For example, during riots. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/398 "2014-08-14T18:46:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Would you say that this is true in all cases. For me what works on a calm day in Mayberry, or an ordinary day in an ordinary town, doesn’t necessarily work in, or on the perimeter of a riot zone. Would you agree with that? Seems to me that cops need flexibility. Imagine trying to clear an area of a hundred people and each of the hundred wants to have a debate about one’s constitutional rights, local ordinances and the like. The cops have flexibility. It’s called probable cause. We’re not talking here about the edge case between not probable cause in Mayberry and probable cause in Mayberry. If you’re in the Mayberry McDonald’s totally apart from any consideration of rioting, and an officer tells you to stop taping and get out of there, and then arrests you for being dilatory about it… well, that doesn’t work, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/399 "2014-08-14T18:48:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m pretty lefty and I think gun rights are pretty important for common citizens. For example, during riots. Most of the rest of the world gets by just fine without everyone being armed to the teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/400 "2014-08-14T18:49:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > First of all, do you have a cite for this? I haven’t heard that it was open. Was it just reporters using it under some arrangement with the owner? Or was it just open as usual? I wouldn’t be surprised either way, since it was right near where riots had been going on nightly for four days. > > Also, where was the riot in relation to the store, exactly? Was it right down the street and moving that way? If so, emptying it out would be a good idea. You can see that the McDonald’s was open in [the photos](http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/13/justice/missouri-teen-shooting-journalists/index.html) Ryan Reilly (the other arrested journalist) posted. Signage on, store employee standing by the counter, etc. I don’t know _exactly_ where it is in relation to the rioting, but the reporters were there to type up their pieces so it was presumably pretty quiet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=21)