# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/701 "2014-08-15T16:49:39Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I would’ve said that my believing something was pretty good reason to have serious doubt that a person could not believe that thing, but hey, it’s your mind. What a guy says when posting on a MB about an issue that he has other views about is very different than what he is thinking if he’s actually in that situation. You can say whatever you want here. If it happened to you you’d be pretty sure the jig was up, just as Brown was. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/702 "2014-08-15T16:50:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What a guy says when posting on a MB about an issue that he has other views about is very different than what he is thinking if he’s actually in that situation. > > You can say whatever you want here. If it happened to you you’d be pretty sure the jig was up, just as Brown was. Based on? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/703 "2014-08-15T16:54:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If this guy’s lawyer admitted he did it, then we can say he did it without worrying about inserting “suspected”. The implications are another matter. The _other_ guy’s lawyer admits he did it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/704 "2014-08-15T16:56:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t know what began at 11, but according to the [incident report](http://www.scribd.com/doc/236905827/Ferguson-Incident-Report), the call came in at 11:51. > > Roughly 10 minutes. 🙂 Quite right. But what happened to the cigars? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/705 "2014-08-15T16:57:51Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Based on? I’ll assume by your question that you have _never_ broken a law. ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/706 "2014-08-15T17:00:11Z")
why does it matter if the guy robbed a place or not.the race war has already gotten stirred up ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/707 "2014-08-15T17:00:32Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I’ll assume by your question that you have _never_ broken a law. Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/708 "2014-08-15T17:06:30Z")
> [@Jay4](#): > > why does it matter if the guy robbed a place or not.the race war has already gotten stirred up There’s a race war? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/709 "2014-08-15T17:07:12Z")
Confused, maybe misreading. The robbery is reported, the cop goes there, the clerk says he went that-a-way, and the cop goes driving around looking for him. “Canvassing”, he calls it. Ten minutes or so after the robbery, Brown is dead. But the second officer did not hear about it? He was apparently close by, he could have been called for back up, which I understand is a fairly common precaution when dealing with potentially violent suspects. But he canvassed the area, did not see Brown and apparently was unaware of any gunfire or fatal altercation, he simply resumed duty after his canvassing was for naught. Is this the same officer who reviewed the videos? How long was Brown lying there dead? Long enough for this other officer to return to the store, ask about witnesses, review the video tape, and then go to the scene and identify Brown as the suspect? I am not implying anything, because I don’t actually know anything. But do these things “add up”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/710 "2014-08-15T17:08:29Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > There’s a race war? :eek: Charles Manson and the Beatles tried to warn us, but we didn’t listen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/711 "2014-08-15T17:09:30Z")
Anyone else notice that the report says the incident was “Exceptionally Cleared”. Mmmm, yes. Quite. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/712 "2014-08-15T17:15:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Anyone else notice that the report says the incident was “Exceptionally Cleared”. Mmmm, yes. Quite. Funny 🙂 But correct, per the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting guidelines: > [@](#): > > Cleared by Exceptional Means > > In certain situations, elements beyond law enforcement’s control prevent the agency from arresting and formally charging the offender. When this occurs, the agency can clear the offense exceptionally. Law enforcement agencies must meet the following four conditions in order to clear an offense by exceptional means. The agency must have: > > • Identified the offender. > • Gathered enough evidence to support an arrest, make a charge, and turn over the offender to the court for prosecution. > • Identified the offender’s exact location so that the suspect could be taken into custody immediately. > • Encountered a circumstance outside the control of law enforcement that prohibits the agency from arresting, charging, and prosecuting the offender. > > Examples of exceptional clearances include, but are not limited to, the death of the offender (e.g., suicide or justifiably killed by police or citizen); the victim’s refusal to cooperate with the prosecution after the offender has been identified; or the denial of extradition because the offender committed a crime in another jurisdiction and is being prosecuted for that offense. In the UCR Program, the recovery of property does not clear an offense. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/713 "2014-08-15T17:16:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Charles Manson and the Beatles tried to warn us, but we didn’t listen. And Pink: - Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar, you’re gonna go far… Everybody else is just greedy… It’s a hell of a start, it could be made into a monster if we all pull together as a team…\* ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/714 "2014-08-15T17:23:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The _other_ guy’s lawyer admits he did it. Oh give me a fucking break. The black community has been playing up the “just a random black boy who was 2 days away from heading to college. He’s being categorized as a black thug by the racist police and media”. Well guess what? He WAS a fucking thug. He robbed a fucking gas station and physically assaulted the clerk and then, by most accounts, assaulted a fucking cop and then a shot was fired in/around the cops car. I don’t know how tall that clerk was but this dude also looked like a big intimidating kid based on the video captures. Now I can’t say that shooting the kid from 30 feet away was the right call, it probably wasn’t, though it’s hard to say exactly what the fuck happened in those moments. That’s what investigations are for. To determine what happened. But this kid was NOT innocent and it sounds like he was actually a piece of shit, not because he was black, but because of his behavior, which was caught on fucking video. Jesus Christ, if people want to have credibility fighting about what the cop did or didn’t do properly they are going to have to give up the claims that this was just a boy who was misidentified and callously shot by a cop. The longer they hold on to that false claim the more they damage the case against an overly militarized police force. Before I get pummeled here let me make it clear that: 1. I don’t think the cop should have shot the kid based on what I know. But I also don’t think I know all the details. 2. The Ferguson police force handled this shit terribly after the fact. 3. Segments of the community of Ferguson handled this shit terribly. What a clusterfuck. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/715 "2014-08-15T17:32:17Z")
Wow! Another gentle giant poor innocent black kid turns out to be a thug after all. I’m so surprised! I hope he and poor little Tray-Tray are enjoying their dirt naps. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/716 "2014-08-15T17:32:39Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > The black community has been playing up the “just a random black boy who was 2 days away from heading to college. He’s being categorized as a black thug by the racist police and media”. > > Well guess what? He WAS a fucking thug. He robbed a fucking gas station and physically assaulted the clerk and then, by most accounts, assaulted a fucking cop and then a shot was fired in/around the cops car. I don’t know how tall that clerk was but this dude also looked like a big intimidating kid based on the video captures. I don’t know exactly what happened at the store or during the confrontation with the cop, but I agree that the photos are incriminating. The narrative just got a lot more complicated. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/717 "2014-08-15T17:36:21Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > …give up the claims that this was just a boy who was misidentified… Who is making these claims? Hadn’t heard any such thing, where did you hear it? Sure gotta hope not, don’t even want to think about the shit that might happen if that’s true. Don’t even want to think about the shit that _did_ happen, if that’s true. > [@](#): > > …The longer they hold on to that false claim the more they damage the case against an overly militarized police force… The police force was already “overly militarized”. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/718 "2014-08-15T17:37:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Who is making these claims? Hadn’t heard any such thing, where did you hear it? Sure gotta hope not, don’t even want to think about the shit that might happen if that’s true. Don’t even want to think about the shit that _did_ happen, if that’s true. > > The police force was already “overly militarized”. I meant profiled, not misidentified. Poor choice of words. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/719 "2014-08-15T17:38:34Z")
**Bricker** , I think you’ve offered a colorable reading of _Mast_, but I do not think it is the best reading. You read it to hold that violations of implicit aspects of an order amount to non-compliance, and that because “Break it up” implies “Break it up and don’t immediately come back to this spot once I leave,” that it follows that “Let’s go” sufficiently implies “Depart in less than the 30 seconds it takes you to depart at your current rate.” I disagree with that reading and application. Of course “and don’t immediately come back” is implicit in any order to disperse. There’s no reason to broaden that holding to apply to other implicit aspects of an order, and certainly not to find an implicit command that leaving in 30 seconds is too slow and he needed to leave in 25 seconds or 20 seconds or whatever you think would have been compliant here. I also find your interpretation of the video to be tendentious. In particular, the “45 seconds” comment on which you put so much weight is not even directed at the reporter and certainly not clearly setting a timeline for the reporter to obey. More importantly, if it was a timeline, the reporter complied! He is at the doors within 30 seconds of that comment. If anything, the fact that he met the thing you think is a timeline but was still arrested cuts against your argument. Nor do I agree that the reporter was self-evidently seeking to delay by asking questions while packing and one question while walking. Moving your lips is entirely unconnected with moving your arms and legs. The bottom line here is that, from the evidence we have, this reporter dispersed in a minute or two. The officer is urging him along, but never says anything approaching “move faster or you’ll be arrested” or “you have 45 seconds to leave this restaurant or you’ll be arrested.” To find that the officer was implicitly ordering him to leave in less than 30 seconds is a leap of inference I do not follow and I don’t think a reasonable person would follow. It is quite different from finding that the officer was ordering him to leave and not immediately return once the officer leaves. ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/720 "2014-08-15T17:38:45Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > The black community has been playing up the “just a random black boy who was 2 days away from heading to college. He’s being categorized as a black thug by the racist police and media”. and its even worse now because obama and people like eric holder get involved [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=37)