# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/741 "2014-08-15T18:41:09Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > He didn’t shoplift them. Do you know what shoplifting entails? It doesn’t involve physical assault of the cashier!! > > Jesus christ. The whole thing is fucked up enough without willful disregarding of factual evidence. He may have stolen a box of cigars from a convenience store and roughed up (though not injured) a clerk in the process, so obviously the police were justified in shooting him in the back, leaving his dead body on the street for hours, and pointing assault weapons at protesters and otherwise acting like the paramilitary forces of some third world junta. There. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/742 "2014-08-15T18:41:10Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > it would be the first thing the PD would have said in their comments about the incident. …and you base this off of your extensive experience in the Ferguson PD? There’s a lot that the Ferguson PD did incorrectly in handling this whole situation, putting a drum type lid on all discussion of the incident was one of those things. I’m not surprised they didn’t come out with this initially. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/743 "2014-08-15T18:41:17Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’m sure you would have been a Good Confederate. Just as you would have been a Good German. The entire existence of the Confederacy was based on treasonous and violent rebellion against the legitimate government. It stood for everything I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/744 "2014-08-15T18:41:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Quite right. But what happened to the cigars? Ever since the Clinton years I classify that as a question better not asked. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/745 "2014-08-15T18:42:18Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > laws, not prosecuting those who committed crimes during the riots, or punishing the police for doing their job. Good. So when does the manhunt begin? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/746 "2014-08-15T18:43:03Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Bullshit, I’ll put it simply: if the cop thought they were suspects from the beginning, it would be the first thing the PD would have said in their comments about the incident. So you’re saying that the cops decided to harass some black guys, had an exchange with them that resulted in a physical altercation and shooting, and then later on it was determined that, “Oh wait, these guys robbed a gas station 10 minutes ago”. It’s all just coincidence? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/747 "2014-08-15T18:43:22Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > …and you base this off of your extensive experience in the Ferguson PD? > > There’s a lot that the Ferguson PD did incorrectly in handling this whole situation, putting a drum type lid on all discussion of the incident was one of those things. I’m not surprised they didn’t come out with this initially. Their MO so far appears to be CYA and overreaction, so I would be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/748 "2014-08-15T18:45:30Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Unfortunately, it appears that Brown robbed a convenience store shortly before being shot. Why is that unfortunate? If this guy was a thug who was justifiably shot that’s good news, right? (Note: I’m not saying robbing the store justifies him being shot.) It means rather than shooting an innocent man because… racism. The cops actually might have been doing their jobs all along. Note that we don’t know this yet for sure. But this news certainly looks like that’s more likely than before. Why isn’t that good news? That would only be bad news to someone really hoping that the cops are evil racists and is disappointed that they aren’t. > [@](#): > > Perhaps more unfortunately, that information will be used to justify everything that occurred after the fact. Again, why would this be unfortunate if it’s true? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/749 "2014-08-15T18:46:12Z")
Just so I’m clear, your belief is that the officer interaction with the two black guys was random harassment that went bad, and after the fact somebody else at the station put two and two together that it was the same two guys that robbed the convenience store? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/750 "2014-08-15T18:47:08Z")
> [@Jay4](#): > > and its funny because it wasnt the conservative citys doing justice for trayvon rallys so who are the racists? Maybe take some classes in remedial English and basic logic and ask that again and I’ll have some basic idea what you’re trying to say. But to answer the last part of your question: you and **G-SE** are the racists. **Smapti** is still a fascist. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/751 "2014-08-15T18:48:59Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Just so I’m clear, your belief is that the officer interaction with the two black guys was random harassment that went bad, and after the fact somebody else at the station put two and two together that it was the same two guys that robbed the convenience store? Thats what I asked! ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/752 "2014-08-15T18:52:39Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Why is that unfortunate? If this guy was a thug who was justifiably shot that’s good news, right? > > It means rather than shooting an innocent man because… racism. The cops actually might have been doing their jobs all along. > > Note that we don’t know this yet for sure. But this news certainly looks like that’s more likely than before. Why isn’t that good news? > > That would only be bad news to someone really hoping that the cops are evil racists and is disappointed that they aren’t. > > Again, why would this be unfortunate if it’s true? The remainder of the post that you quoted from explained why it’s unfortunate. It’s unfortunate because that fact is going to be used as a blanket justification for the shooting, and the police overreaction. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Just so I’m clear, your belief is that the officer interaction with the two black guys was random harassment that went bad, and after the fact somebody else at the station put two and two together that it was the same two guys that robbed the convenience store? No, I don’t believe I ever said “random harassment.” The officer may have been responding to the robbery. And I don’t have the motivation to find it again, but somewhere there are photos of the reports. On one of them (don’t remember which one, the shooting or the robbery) there is a statement to the effect of “this guy appears to have been associated in some way with this other report.” So in that case, yes it would appear that the association was made after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/753 "2014-08-15T18:53:52Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Legal guy on CNN says it permissible to use deadly force on a _fleeing felon._ > > _If_ you committed a felony, _and_ resisted arrest, _and_ ran down the street with your hands up, it sounds like you’re fair game. > > Not sure if I agree with it, but if that’s the law, that the law. > > Need to find out what really happened now. This seems reasonable to me. Not that they should shoot every felon who flees. But I can certainly imagine circumstances where it would be appropriate. Let’s say he robbed the store. Cop rolls up to question him. He reaches into the cop car, beats the cop, and tries to get the cops gun. He fails to grab it. He runs away. I’d say shooting him in the back is a reasonable thing to do at that point. It has a good chance of saving the life of the next person to encounter him. If he’s so far gone he’s assaulting cops who knows what he’d do. Again, I note that this is theoretical. We don’t yet know if this is what happened. But I can certainly think of plausible scenarios where shooting him in the back is reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/754 "2014-08-15T18:56:23Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > The remainder of the post that you quoted from explained why it’s unfortunate. It’s unfortunate because that fact is going to be used as a blanket justification for the shooting, and the police overreaction. Fine. If that’s what you meant. You wrote that it was unfortunate all on it’s own. Then you went on to state that it was even more unfortunate that people would use it to justify the shooting. If you didn’t mean it was unfortunate other than this I agree. In fact, it’s good news. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/755 "2014-08-15T18:57:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As a guy in my 30s with high blood pressure and bad feet? I don’t know how desperate Germany was for warm bodies in 1945, but I doubt it. I can’t say I’m anywhere near the biggest WWII buff, but by 1945? Pretty damn. I wouldn’t have thought you’d have been passed on even before that point, honestly. Open to correction, though. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/756 "2014-08-15T18:59:16Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Bullshit, I’ll put it simply: if the cop thought they were suspects from the beginning, it would be the first thing the PD would have said in their comments about the incident. I doubt it. As noted, the cops have been very tight-lipped in general about the whole story. But in addition, suppose the cops announced upfront that he was a potential robbery suspect and it turned out that he was a choir boy who had nothing to do with the robbery and it was another big guy who looked like him. Everyone and his brother - possibly including you - would have been all over them for attempting to smear the victim, and people would have gotten even more riled up than they currently are. At this point they seem pretty confident that he was the guy. But that doesn’t mean they were at the time, even if that was the basis for the controntation. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/757 "2014-08-15T19:01:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I doubt it. > > As noted, the cops have been very tight-lipped in general about the whole story. But in addition, suppose the cops announced upfront that he was a potential robbery suspect and it turned out that he was a choir boy who had nothing to do with the robbery and it was another big guy who looked like him. Everyone and his brother - possibly including you - would have been all over them for attempting to smear the victim, and people would have gotten even more riled up than they currently are. > > At this point they seem pretty confident that he was the guy. But that doesn’t mean they were at the time, even if that was the basis for the controntation. I’m looking forward to the dispatch tapes being released. And on top of that, someone mentioned above…if he thought he was contacting felony suspects, why the hell wasn’t he treating it as a felony stop? ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/758 "2014-08-15T19:01:55Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Maybe take some classes in remedial English and basic logic and ask that again and I’ll have some basic idea what you’re trying to say. But to answer the last part of your question: you and **G-SE** are the racists. **Smapti** is still a fascist. insults and ignorance,what the left does best.one of these days you idiots may get enough intelligence to relize who the real racists are ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/759 "2014-08-15T19:03:08Z")
With that guy in New York getting choked to death while selling loose cigarettes, and Brown now suspected of stealing a box of cigars, is there any remaining doubt that smoking kills? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/760 "2014-08-15T19:05:49Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > So the narrative, whatever it has been, remains. Well, no. Now it is “the evil white cop harasses an innocent black boy on his way from the committing a robbery to his grandmother’s and shoots him dead” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=39)