# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/801 "2014-08-15T20:31:44Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I watched the interview with the police chief. What I got from it was that the officer was not responding to the robbery call and wasn’t even aware of it, so his contact with Brown and his friend had nothing to do with it, and that the videotape may not be of Brown and his friend at all. [http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/ferguson-police-officer-shooting-id-110049.html?hp=l1](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/ferguson-police-officer-shooting-id-110049.html?hp=l1) The police chief said that Wilson was originally investigating a “sick call” before noon on Saturday, **and then responded to a reported robbery at a nearby Ferguson convenience store, of which Brown allegedly was a suspect**. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/802 "2014-08-15T20:32:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/ferguson-police-officer-shooting-id-110049.html?hp=l1](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/ferguson-police-officer-shooting-id-110049.html?hp=l1) > > The police chief said that Wilson was originally investigating a “sick call” before noon on Saturday, **and then responded to a reported robbery at a nearby Ferguson convenience store, of which Brown allegedly was a suspect**. Quite right, but the officer didn’t know that _at the time of the contact_. I’m pretty sure that point isn’t in contention any longer. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/803 "2014-08-15T20:32:44Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Wait, there is doubt as to whether they are actually the freaking robbery suspects? > > ETA I mean yeah, you just said that…but that’s another can of worms. The lawyer of Johnson - the guy who was with Brown in the store - confirms the robbery. I don’t think there is any doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/804 "2014-08-15T20:33:44Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Quite right, but the officer didn’t know that _at the time of the contact_. I’m pretty sure that point isn’t in contention any longer. Look at the post to which I was responding. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/805 "2014-08-15T20:34:43Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Apparently. If I understood what the police chief said. And now I’m not sure if I did. ☹ It’s hard to wade through this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/806 "2014-08-15T20:36:38Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > One thing I haven’t seen is if Michael Brown had any prior record. If he didn’t, then I’m fairly certain he can’t be a felon even if he did commit the robbery (and were convicted of it), because the value of the goods stolen wasn’t high enough to qualify for grand theft. Wouldn’t the use of force in committing the robbery make it a felony? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/807 "2014-08-15T20:39:25Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I watched the interview with the police chief. What I got from it was that the officer was not responding to the robbery call and wasn’t even aware of it, so his contact with Brown and his friend had nothing to do with it, and that the videotape may not be of Brown and his friend at all. > > Yes, he did actually say that they had not positively identified the two as the robbers. I concede that this does not necessarily mean the two did \*not \*commit the robbery, but it does mean that there seems to be some doubt about it right now. > > One thing I haven’t seen is if Michael Brown had any prior record. If he didn’t, then I’m fairly certain he can’t be a felon even if he did commit the robbery (and were convicted of it), because the value of the goods stolen wasn’t high enough to qualify for grand theft. Wrong. It is clear in the video that he is using force. Using force to commit a theft is called robbery. Robbery is a felony regardless of the price of the goods taken. [QUOTE=MSNBC] We see that there’s tape, that they claim they got a tape that shows there was some sort of strong-armed robbery,” said Freeman Bosley, Johnson’s attorney. “We need to see that tape, my client did tell us and told the FBI that they went into the store. He told FBI that [Brown] did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.” In an interview earlier this week, Johnson described the events of the shooting but did not mention that he and Brown had been in a convenience store just before, or that Brown had stolen anything. [/QUOTE] [http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown?cid=sm\_m\_main\_1\_20140815\_29822566](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown?cid=sm_m_main_1_20140815_29822566) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/808 "2014-08-15T20:41:26Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Wouldn’t the use of force in committing the robbery make it a felony? sorry posting at the same time. Even though people use it wrong (My house got robbed!) robbery has a specific meaning. Robbery, theft, burglary all have different meanings and more than one can occur at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/809 "2014-08-15T20:44:01Z")
As usual, society makes a premature rush to judgment. What else is new? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/810 "2014-08-15T20:47:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I were defending the case, I’d certainly argue what you’ve said, and I’d expect to win a dismissal. > > But I wouldn’t expect to prevail at a probable-cause hearing. I agree that it’s close. And ties probably go to the police most of the time. But just to tie this up in one final bow: In context, I don’t think filming and asking questions–while also packing and moving toward the door _in less than a minute_–gives an officer probable cause to believe the reporter had an intent not to leave. And in the absence of some fair notice that the order required him to leave as quickly as possible, I don’t think there can be any constitutionally-legitimate probable cause of a crime. So to me the debate really comes down to whether, given the facts, the officer could reasonably have believed that the reporter had fair notice of the need to move faster than he was moving or he would be arrested. I just don’t see that in the video or his account, but I agree it is close. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/811 "2014-08-15T20:49:18Z")
I don’t think people are grasping the idea that just cause the cop didn’t know (based off comments - not my actual knowledge of the facts) - doesn’t mean that Brown didn’t think he knew. If I had robbed the store 15 minutes prior - and a cop comes up to me - I’m going to assume the cop is on to me. Not saying that justifies killing him, but the idea that this was just some kid on his was home is looking a little silly. Of course the police better pray that that actually IS the kid in the video (which sounds likely if his friend is admitting to it). And why did it take them so long? Seems like if they would have released this sooner - it may have calmed people down. I don’t buy a conspiracy theory, but when you wait that long to real ease something - naturally you are going to drive people to assumptions. Seems like maybe they are a little to used to being able to control things - the release of the guys name was GOING to happen - and I have no doubt he was being threatened, but you are better off providing protection and being open than you are trying to control every detail of an investigation in a community out of control. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/812 "2014-08-15T20:49:26Z")
The boiling-over of rage, among some of the citizenry of the U.S., toward police over-reach is a good indicator that my assertion: we are becoming a police-state, is correct. That notion was being poo-poo’d, here, in recent months. I expect a bit less of that poo, for a while. Or, possibly, even more of it because of the backlash of those in denial. Nobody likes being told they’re wrong. Or few, at least. Have all those African-American’s of Fullerton, Mo. gone, simultainiously, mad ? Or do they have a valid reason ? I know what I think. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/813 "2014-08-15T20:54:15Z")
> [@common\_good](#): > > Have all those African-American’s of Fullerton, Mo. gone, simultainiously, mad ? Or do they have a valid reason ? I know what I think. Ferguson. As in Turd. It’s right there in the subject line, if you get confused again. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/814 "2014-08-15T20:55:24Z")
To paraphrase the Brown Family Attorney: _“We never claimed he was a Saint! Sure he made some mistakes… but… **RACISM**!”_ ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/815 "2014-08-15T21:00:39Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Ferguson. As in Turd. It’s right there in the subject line, if you get confused again. Oh, thanks. Your shoe’s untied. Just trying to be helpful, like you. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/816 "2014-08-15T21:05:30Z")
> [@common\_good](#): > > The boiling-over of rage, among some of the citizenry of the U.S., toward police over-reach is a good indicator that my assertion: we are becoming a police-state, is correct. That notion was being poo-poo’d, here, in recent months. I expect a bit less of that poo, for a while. Or, possibly, even more of it because of the backlash of those in denial. Nobody likes being told they’re wrong. Or few, at least. > Have all those African-American’s of Fullerton, Mo. gone, simultainiously, mad ? Or do they have a valid reason ? I know what I think. I hear a disturbance of the Force. As if dozens of people in this thread just thought “You’re not helping” > [@DataX](#): > > And why did it take them so long? Seems like if they would have released this sooner - it may have calmed people down. I don’t buy a conspiracy theory, but when you wait that long to real ease something - naturally you are going to drive people to assumptions. I can’t know for sure why they waited so long. They probably thought that it was better to wait and release information they were sure of rather than release info that might prove to be wrong later. Just look at the case of Darrin Johnson. According to the lawyer, “He told FBI that [Brown] did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.” All those interviews take time. And they probably had to wait for clearance from his lawyer to give the interviews. And that was only one witness. There were plenty of “witnesses” who were willing to go in front of a camera. I’m sure finding witnesses willing to go under oath was a lot more difficult. Maybe releasing information piece by piece as it came in might have helped calm the situation. Maybe not. The initial reaction to the video was that it was fake so who knows. But releasing information too soon often will screw up an ongoing investigation. It’s often a question of do you want it fast or do you want it good? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/817 "2014-08-15T21:06:46Z")
> [@](#): > > …But Darren Wilson, the officer who stopped Brown, wasn’t even aware that Brown was a suspect in the robbery, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Friday afternoon. He initially stopped Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, because the pair was walking in the middle of the street, Jackson said… (From the link cited above) It just gets weirder and weirder… At least his explains why he told them to get to the sidewalk, which I was having a hard time understanding in any context. But with current information, we may conclude that Brown was apprehended in the act of aggravated jaywalking. I’m wondering (and actually wondering, not insinuating…) howcum it took so long to put this robbery info out there. They knew about it right away, that second officer claims a clear identification on the scene. I don’t get it, why withhold that? After all, they got him on strong armed robbery, which is armed robbery only stronger! (Way back in my mind, in the cage where I keep groundless speculations, I’m thinking the boy was stoned on something he didn’t know how to handle. However, I’ve had to stuff the cage with **Jay4** ’s drivel until I can schedule another memory flush…) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/818 "2014-08-15T21:08:45Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > To paraphrase the Brown Family Attorney: _“We never claimed he was a Saint! Sure he made some mistakes… but… **RACISM**!”_ Try to put “racism” aside for a moment. How comfortable should we be with an unarmed person being shot to death by police? Even the Ferguson police aren’t claiming that at the time the fatal bullets were shot, Brown was on a rampage or attacking or otherwise endangering the lives of the police or anyone else. They haven’t disputed the reports that Brown was at some distance from the shooter, with his hands up. If they thought they could get away with claiming that Brown was charging, then surely they would have made that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/819 "2014-08-15T21:16:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Try to put “racism” aside for a moment. How comfortable should we be with an unarmed person being shot to death by police? It depends what he was doing just prior. And “Unarmed” doesn’t mean “Not Dangerous”. Hell, every Navy Seal in the world can kill you 17 different ways with his pinky finger! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/820 "2014-08-15T21:19:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > (Way back in my mind, in the cage where I keep groundless speculations, I’m thinking the boy was stoned on something he didn’t know how to handle. However, I’ve had to stuff the cage with **Jay4** ’s drivel until I can schedule another memory flush…) From what I’ve seen in life you go and steal cigars because you want to get high not because you already are. (I hope I don’t have to explain what a blunt is to anyone) > [@Sherrerd](#): > > Try to put “racism” aside for a moment. How comfortable should we be with an unarmed person being shot to death by police? > > Even the Ferguson police aren’t claiming that at the time the fatal bullets were shot, Brown was on a rampage or attacking or otherwise endangering the lives of the police or anyone else. They haven’t disputed the reports that Brown was at some distance from the shooter, with his hands up. If they thought they could get away with claiming that Brown was charging, then surely they would have made that claim. You should never be comfortable when a police officer uses deadly force. All such incidents should be fully investigated. There will be fewer circumstances where an officer is justified using deadly force when someone is unarmed. But there are circumstances when it will be justified. As for if he was shot from a distance, did I miss something? Was the autopsy released? I’m not combing the internet for every single story. I could have missed something. Until the autopsy is released that is all just speculation. And with all the publicity I’m guessing a lot of MEs are looking at it from several layers of government. I have not seen all the coverage but anything I have seen about how he was shot came from uncorroborated people who claimed to be witnesses and his friend who was present during the robbery. If it is proven to be a far distance from the autopsy I believe charges will be brought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=42)