# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/861 "2014-08-16T00:26:18Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Right, exactly. So doesn’t that tell us something about his frame of mind? He may have been acting like a hooligan who just grabbed a couple of packs of smokes without paying, he’s certainly not acting like a grown man trying to avoid a felony conviction. The whole, “He assaulted a cop because he knew he’d just committed a violent robbery” angle just doesn’t jive with the casual jackass jaywalker. A hooligan? The “gentle giant”? Are we changing the narrative here? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/862 "2014-08-16T00:26:35Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Let’s just assume for this post that Brown really did scuffle with the officer for his gun. What reasons would Brown have for doing that if not to avoid an arrest? Let’s not assume that, because it makes no sense given his other actions. That’s my point. People seem to be pointing to the robbery as support for the officer’s version of events. It seems to me that the officer is lying. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/863 "2014-08-16T00:27:14Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Let’s just assume for this post that Brown really did scuffle with the officer for his gun. What reasons would Brown have for doing that if not to avoid an arrest? The short clip of him in the store shows a large man who casually uses his size and strength to do whatever he wants. And until the autopsy comes out it’s unknown if he was under the influence of anything. Some of the evidence has been revealed but not all of it. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/864 "2014-08-16T00:27:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A hooligan? The “gentle giant”? Are we changing the narrative here? Are you going to address anything of substance in regards to what I’m saying? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/865 "2014-08-16T00:28:00Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Let’s not assume that, because it makes no sense given his other actions. That’s my point. People seem to be pointing to the robbery as support for the officer’s version of events. It seems to me that the officer is lying. Riiiight. The fact that the officer was called in to investigate the robbery that Brown just committed is just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/866 "2014-08-16T00:28:21Z")
The ONLY witness we have who speaks of a scuffle with the cop is THE COP. The cop who murdered this kid. Thanks, no. I’m not enough of a brainless fascist submissive to just accept that at face value, unlike some here. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/867 "2014-08-16T00:29:41Z")
Awful lot of people creeping out of the woodwork since this happened who are really eager to make sure their tongues are firmly lodged in some pig crack. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/868 "2014-08-16T00:30:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Riiiight. The fact that the officer was called in to investigate the robbery that Brown just committed is just a coincidence. You seem to be actively avoiding addressing my point now. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/869 "2014-08-16T00:30:08Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Are you going to address anything of substance in regards to what I’m saying? I am saying that from his actions, both before and during the altercation, Michael Brown seems about as bright as a burnt out 20-watt bulb. I am not sure why you’re trying to assign some higher logic to his actions. And I don’t believe in really bizarre coincidences. Like a cop that was called in to investigate the robbery that Brown just committed getting into an altercation with him for completely unrelated reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/870 "2014-08-16T00:30:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sunshine Law. The only way they could refuse to do so would be if a court approved non-disclosure. Court probably didn’t. [http://ago.mo.gov/sunshinelaw/faqs.htm#Q4a](http://ago.mo.gov/sunshinelaw/faqs.htm#Q4a) Ah. Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/871 "2014-08-16T00:33:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am saying that from his actions, both before and during the altercation, Michael Brown seems about as bright as a burnt out 20-watt bulb. I am not sure why you’re trying to assign some higher logic to his actions. And I don’t believe in really bizarre coincidences. Like a cop that was called in to investigate the robbery that Brown just committed getting into an altercation with him for completely unrelated reasons. And yet you’re eager to ascribe to him the higher logic that he’d annoy, provoke, and then attack a cop to avoid arrest. You can’t have it both ways, either his actions are beyond logical comprehension or they need to make some kind of logical sense, which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/872 "2014-08-16T00:36:01Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The ONLY witness we have who speaks of a scuffle with the cop is THE COP. The cop who murdered this kid. Thanks, no. I’m not enough of a brainless fascist submissive to just accept that at face value, unlike some here. You’re pretty quick with the "“M” word there. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I’m willing to wait until the DOJ has done their job and issued a report before making such a call. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/873 "2014-08-16T00:36:44Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > And yet you’re eager to ascribe to him the higher logic that he’d annoy, provoke, and then attack a cop to avoid arrest. That’s not “higher logic”. That’s lack of it. As I said, dim bulb. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/874 "2014-08-16T00:43:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If it is proven to be a far distance from the autopsy I believe charges will be brought. How far is far. I have seen it demonstrated that someone can cover 20 feet about as fast as you can typically draw a handgun. I have heard 30 feet tossed around as the range of the shooting. Would it shift your perspective on shoot/no shoot if there had already been a scuffle with this guy that resulted in a weapon discharge? I generally view the idea of fighting with police officers as high order stupid. I full well expect that if I do I am rolling the dice at getting shot for my efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/875 "2014-08-16T00:46:43Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > A guy in an apartment near where Brown was shot tweeted about the incident as it was happening. The guy claimed that Brown was running away from the officer when the first two shots were fired. According to the tweets, Brown then turned to face the officer and was shot several more times. > > [Twitter User Appears To Provide Eyewitness Account Of Teen Shooting - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/twitter-user-michael-brown-shooting-ferguson) That is a misrepresentation of what that article says. He tweeted after it was over. Which is not a bad thing. If it was really supposed to be someone taking the time to type a blow by blow account as it happen instead of just using his camera I would have called bullshit. Someone tweeting right after the shooting could be an actual witness. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/876 "2014-08-16T00:51:19Z")
**Terr** , as strange as it sounds, it seems that Wilson _did not_ know Brown was a suspect in the robbery at the time of the stop. See cites from press conferences upthread. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/877 "2014-08-16T00:53:06Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You’re pretty quick with the "“M” word there. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I’m willing to wait until the DOJ has done their job and issued a report before making such a call. I still consider Treyvon Martin’s death to have been murder, as well. Verdict =/= truth. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/878 "2014-08-16T00:54:51Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The ONLY witness we have who speaks of a scuffle with the cop is THE COP. The cop who murdered this kid. Thanks, no. I’m not enough of a brainless fascist submissive to just accept that at face value, unlike some here. No, you’re just going to accept at face value that it was murder, despite the autopsy not being in, conflicting witness reports, and no-one having even been charged, let alone convicted, of murder. It’s not about believing the cop unquestioningly, it’s about questioning his account and waiting for answers to those questions. For example, where exactly was Brown when he was shot? What are the nature of the police officer’s (claimed) injuries? And how many official witness statements to the investigation will match the edited versions of their statements to the media? If it turns out he was shot in the back, especially from some distance away, then it will almost certainly be murder or manslaughter. If it was close range, and the cop was injured, it’s far less likely. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/879 "2014-08-16T01:01:49Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If it turns out he was shot in the back, especially from some distance away, then it will almost certainly be murder or manslaughter. If it was close range, and the cop was injured, it’s far less likely. I’ve seen it suggested that if the alternative is a probable conviction on a murder or manslaughter charge, a way will be found to acquire injuries/wounds to exhibit. It’s certainly not a kind suggestion. But it may be that the likelihood that Officer Wilson will reveal himself to the press in a state of complete freedom from visible wounds or injuries is low. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/880 "2014-08-16T01:08:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That is a misrepresentation of what that article says. He tweeted after it was over. OK. Sloppy writing on my part. I was on my thumbs. It looks like he was tweeting as people started to gather around the scene right after the shooting. Anyway, his account lines up generally with what some of the other witnesses told the media. That Brown was shot as he was running away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=45)