# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/881 "2014-08-16T01:21:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’ve seen it suggested that if the alternative is a probable conviction on a murder or manslaughter charge, a way will be found to acquire injuries/wounds to exhibit. > > It’s certainly not a kind suggestion. But it may be that the likelihood that Officer Wilson will reveal himself to the press in a state of complete freedom from visible wounds or injuries is low. Or he could be telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/882 "2014-08-16T01:35:08Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’ve seen it suggested that if the alternative is a probable conviction on a murder or manslaughter charge, a way will be found to acquire injuries/wounds to exhibit. > > It’s certainly not a kind suggestion. But it may be that the likelihood that Officer Wilson will reveal himself to the press in a state of complete freedom from visible wounds or injuries is low. The thing is, a suggestion is not enough. This was also suggested in the George Zimmerman case, but no evidence ever emerged that he injured himself. Depending on the local laws (I have no idea about Missouri self defence laws, but I’m sure we’ll all find out if this case goes to court) there’d need to either be strong evidence or actual proof that the injuries weren’t inflicted by Brown to prove it wasn’t self defence on those grounds. There are, of course, other grounds to prove it - such as, if he was shot in the back whilst running away, even after injuring him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/883 "2014-08-16T01:37:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s just one paragraph above what you’re quoting. Did you miss it? > > "Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said. > > But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown’s hand and realized he might be the robber." Let me get my best rumpled raincoat, do my Columbo. "Just one more question Mr. **Terr** , and I’ll stop bothering you. And let me say, I really want to thank you for all your help in my investigation, you’ve cleared up all the problems…except this one, kept me up all night, thinking about it… See, Mr. Terr, sir, that’s impossible. Either what the Chief is saying in the first quote is true, or what he said in the second quote is true, but not both! Unless there’s something suspicious about a man holding cigars…" ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/884 "2014-08-16T01:46:08Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Like, you’d think he’d not want to provoke a cop by refusing to move out of the way, right? This. C’mon, people. It’s 2014. By now we all know the proper way to handle any situation involving law enforcement officers. 1. Keep your hands in the air at all times. 2. Speak slowly and clearly and respectfully. 3. Do not remove your I.D. until instructed to do so because it may involve reaching for pockets or a purse or backpack. 4. Do not make any physical movements. 5. Do not raise your voice. 6. Comply with all instructions. 7. Do not attempt to record audio or video of law enforcement officers. That’s pretty simple. It probably will keep you alive. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/885 "2014-08-16T02:12:46Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > **Terr** , as strange as it sounds, it seems that Wilson _did not_ know Brown was a suspect in the robbery at the time of the stop. See cites from press conferences upthread. "Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but **did not know when he encountered Brown** and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said. But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that **the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown’s hand and realized he might be the robber**." ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/886 "2014-08-16T02:14:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Let me get my best rumpled raincoat, do my Columbo. > > "Just one more question Mr. **Terr** , and I’ll stop bothering you. And let me say, I really want to thank you for all your help in my investigation, you’ve cleared up all the problems…except this one, kept me up all night, thinking about it… > > See, Mr. Terr, sir, that’s impossible. Either what the Chief is saying in the first quote is true, or what he said in the second quote is true, but not both! Unless there’s something suspicious about a man holding cigars…" Disingenuous crap. The officer saw two guys walking down the middle of the street. Didn’t know they were suspects. Told them to get off the street. Drove by. Saw the cigars. Connected to the robbery. Backed up. Tried to open door… etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/887 "2014-08-16T02:47:02Z")
Slowly, very slowly…why would he think _anything_ at all about the cigars if he did not know about the robbery? Take your time. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/888 "2014-08-16T03:05:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Slowly, very slowly…why would he think _anything_ at all about the cigars if he did not know about the robbery? Take your time. For crying out loud, stop being a moron. Well, if you can help it. I don’t think you can. “Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects.” Read this. Slowly. This will explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/889 "2014-08-16T03:09:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Slowly, very slowly…why would he think _anything_ at all about the cigars if he did not know about the robbery? Take your time. Who said he didn’t know about the robbery? He didn’t know that Brown and Johnson were suspects at the point in time when he stopped them for jaywalking. That does not mean he did not know that there was a robbery, that cigars were stolen, or that Brown and Johnson were involved after he stopped them for jaywalking. ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/890 "2014-08-16T03:12:29Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > 1. Do not attempt to record audio or video of law enforcement officers. you do understand why people started recording cops right ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/891 "2014-08-16T03:15:37Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Who said he didn’t know about the robbery? He didn’t know that Brown and Johnson were suspects at the point in time when he stopped them for jaywalking. That does not mean he did not know that there was a robbery, that cigars were stolen, or that Brown and Johnson were involved after he stopped them for jaywalking. You have to try explaining it to **elucidator** in much shorter sentences. Like to a 5 year old. Apparently normal explanations do not take. ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/892 "2014-08-16T03:38:26Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Why in the Hell would they release the [officer’s name](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us/darren-wilson-identified-as-officer-in-fatal-shooting-in-ferguson-missouri.html?_r=0)? I can’t imagine a single reason why that would be a good idea. now we shall wait til an angry mob of obama’s sons ends up murdering him but seriously though,wasnt there also a police officer,police chief or whatever that actually took part in one of the "peaceful protests"after this happened ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/893 "2014-08-16T05:17:34Z")
> [@Jay4](#): > > now we shall wait til an angry mob of obama’s sons ends up murdering him > but seriously though,wasnt there also a police officer,police chief or whatever that actually took part in one of the "peaceful protests"after this happened Dude, seriously! I have a drinking problem, and have been awake for near 32 hours following this shitty thread, but I ain’t got nothin’ on this crap! What the (actual) Fuck? Nod to whoever posted that first in the “roofer shit in my yard” thread. Goddammit that was funny! I might need another beer… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/894 "2014-08-16T05:41:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You have to try explaining it to **elucidator** in much shorter sentences. Like to a 5 year old. Apparently normal explanations do not take. Well. I’ve seen lots and lots of normal, never impressed me very much. But anyway, so what happened was that the cop knew about the robbery (which had occurred only minutes before) and he knew that cigars were involved. OK. so far so good. Did he know where the robbery took place? The fact that it was relatively close? Why didn’t he go to the scene of the robbery, then? Oh, wait, he knew that the robbery was over, right, of course. But he had no description of the suspects! Ah, yes, that must be it! But then, how did he know the robbery had even occured, and knew it involved cigars, but didn’t know anything about the suspects, which way they had gone, none of that! How? How did this happen? He got a radio call, telling him about the robbery and the cigars but not any mention of suspects? Yes, that must be it, its so normal. **OR!** did the clerk call the cops, tell them about the strong armed robbery, told them they took cigars, but didn’t mention anything about two black guys, one fucking huge and the other not? And nobody asked? Nobody said anything like “So, what did these guys look like?”. The cop who came to the scene got a very good description, apparently, but nobody else did? Or maybe he _did_ describe the suspects, but the dispatcher didn’t say anything about that. But\* did \*mention the cigars! So, we’ve got one set of complex and interwoven circumstances, none of which are very plausible. Or, the Chief told a different story on two different occasions. And you pick the first one, because you are normal. I find that very reassuring. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/895 "2014-08-16T07:39:26Z")
Curiouser and curiouser…this from Fox News, who’s normality is open to question… > [@](#): > > …The officer interviewed an employee and customer, who gave a description of a man who stole the cigars and walked off with another man toward a QuikTrip store. > > Descriptions of the suspect were broadcast over the police radio. The officer did not find the suspects either on the street or at the Quik Trip, the reports said… [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/16/ferguson-shooting-police-standoff/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/16/ferguson-shooting-police-standoff/) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/896 "2014-08-16T08:08:04Z")
Although the reports of the robbery came as a surprise to the national media, it was apparently common knowledge in the community as far back as the day of the shooting. The first person who tweeted a picture of the body around noon on August 9th, tweeted that same night around 6:00 pm responding to another Twitter user about the theft of the cigars. I also found a tweet from the next day where someone claimed that the local police were putting out the story of a robbery and that it hadn’t been confirmed by the store owner yet. Too bad the police were too busy dusting off their bean bag rounds and slamming reporters into Coke machines instead of, you know, getting some facts released. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/897 "2014-08-16T09:29:03Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Why in the Hell would they release the [officer’s name](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us/darren-wilson-identified-as-officer-in-fatal-shooting-in-ferguson-missouri.html?_r=0)? I can’t imagine a single reason why that would be a good idea. To add to what **Terr** said, it was also already out there, and not just as a tentative name. It wasn’t so much “releasing” the name as confirming it, and even then reporters seemed pretty sure. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/898 "2014-08-16T13:19:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well. I’ve seen lots and lots of normal, never impressed me very much. > > But anyway, so what happened was that the cop knew about the robbery (which had occurred only minutes before) and he knew that cigars were involved. OK. so far so good. Did he know where the robbery took place? The fact that it was relatively close? **Why didn’t he go to the scene of the robbery, then?** Good police procedure is to fan out and search the area if suspect(s) are known to have fled the scene. Most officers responding for a robbery should not go directly to the scene. > [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, wait, he knew that the robbery was over, right, of course. But he had no description of the suspects! Ah, yes, that must be it! But then, how did he know the robbery had even occured, and knew it involved cigars, but didn’t know anything about the suspects, which way they had gone, none of that! Happens all the freaking time with these 911 calls. Caller is unable (or unwilling) to provide all the requested information to the call taker. The caller may not have seen the direction and/or means of travel the suspect(s) used when fleeing the scene. Then the dispatcher has to prioritize which information to send out and in what order during the radio dispatch and post-dispatch. Sometimes some information is left out for the sake of brevity and clarity. Sometimes information is left out due to breaking radio traffic by officers. Sometimes information is left out because someone screwed up. > [@elucidator](#): > > How? How did this happen? He got a radio call, telling him about the robbery and the cigars but not any mention of suspects? Yes, that must be it, its so normal. Pretty normal, yes. Very normal in my experience. > [@elucidator](#): > > **OR!** did the clerk call the cops, tell them about the strong armed robbery, told them they took cigars, but didn’t mention anything about two black guys, one fucking huge and the other not? And nobody asked? Nobody said anything like “So, what did these guys look like?”. Also pretty normal. Or the 911 call taker asked and the caller was unable, or unwilling, to provide the requested information. > [@elucidator](#): > > The cop who came to the scene got a very good description, apparently, but nobody else did? Frequently the first officer on scene is able to collect a better description of the suspect(s) than the 911 call taker was able to obtain. But that does not help his fellow officers unless that information is shared. Hopefully audio recordings of the radio transmissions will clarify this matter. > [@elucidator](#): > > Or maybe he _did_ describe the suspects, but the dispatcher didn’t say anything about that. But\* did \*mention the cigars! Could be. Wouldn’t even surprise me. > [@elucidator](#): > > So, we’ve got one set of complex and interwoven circumstances, none of which are very plausible. Or, the Chief told a different story on two different occasions. And you pick the first one, because you are normal. > > I find that very reassuring. I work in a 9-1-1 center. I’ve been involved in Quality Assurance reviews of too many calls. I choose option one, based upon my experience. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/899 "2014-08-16T13:21:58Z")
So did they get the cigars back? That was the point of shooting the guy while he was trying to surrender, right? Please, God, let the cigars be okay. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/900 "2014-08-16T13:42:46Z")
> [@Dva\_Staryx\_Yaytsa](#): > > I just watched the video of the so-called robbery and I think this would be a wonderful opportunity to pause for a moment and give thanks for the great contributions of the Black community to our society. Their peaceful and generous nature make them ideal neighbors, lending testimony to their exceptional family values and parenting skills unrivaled by any other culture. Their commitment to academic excellence enriches our schools and serves as an example to all who hope to achieve prominence as a people. Real estate values are fueled by the mix of African Americans into an area due to their caring and respectful nature of these communities, an example of all they have achieved through their enthusiasm for self improvement by hard work and a self-reliant can-do nature. Without their industrious and creative drive, we would be poorer as a nation. Do you have opposable thumbs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=46)