# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/981 "2014-08-17T12:25:07Z")
By the way, from some eyewitnesses: [Brown may have started going after the police officer when he was shot.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAaJMBxKA4#t=155) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/982 "2014-08-17T12:47:40Z")
Your suggestion is in the plural, your facts in the singular. Do watch out for that, you might give an unfortunate impression of exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/983 "2014-08-17T12:52:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Your suggestion is in the plural, your facts in the singular. Do watch out for that, you might give an unfortunate impression of exaggeration. Initially, I thought the same thing, but the video starts at 2:35. If you watch the entirety, it’s one witness seemingly corroborating one other. Still only two, not the plurality I’m sure the author was hoping to deceive others into believing. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/984 "2014-08-17T13:46:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If you wouldn’t kill somebody to take what’s theirs, why would you be willing to kill to keep what’s yours? I suppose I shouldn’t defend my family if I’m not willing to kidnap someone either. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/985 "2014-08-17T13:58:05Z")
I think **elucidator** may be attempting to distinguish between the relative value of human lives and those of objects, in particular inexpensive and easily replaceable objects. This would, I presume, apply to the lives of strangers you might shoot as well as loved ones you might defend. It’s a subtle distinction, but you can almost make it out if you squint. Ask yourself if you would defend your family by shooting to death your kid’s classmate for taking a brownie from his lunch tray. Some here undoubtedly would, if they could. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/986 "2014-08-17T14:30:53Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I think **elucidator** may be attempting to distinguish between the relative value of human lives and those of objects, in particular inexpensive and easily replaceable objects. This would, I presume, apply to the lives of strangers you might shoot as well as loved ones you might defend. It’s a subtle distinction, but you can almost make it out if you squint. > > Ask yourself if you would defend your family by shooting to death your kid’s classmate for taking a brownie from his lunch tray. Some here undoubtedly would, if they could. There’s no doubt that that’s the point he’s trying to make. But to do so with "if you’re willing to do legal act A (in many places) then you should be willing to do illegal act B (in all places) is a false equivalence, asinine and not worthy of a person of his obvious intellect. I would also disagree with the premise that any poster here would kill over a child’s brownie. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/987 "2014-08-17T15:21:46Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > There’s no doubt that that’s the point he’s trying to make. But to do so with "if you’re willing to do legal act A (in many places) then you should be willing to do illegal act B (in all places) is a false equivalence, asinine and not worthy of a person of his obvious intellect. > > I would also disagree with the premise that any poster here would kill over a child’s brownie. So legal equals moral? Talk about your false equivalence. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/988 "2014-08-17T15:55:09Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/sSrMaPB2Dg0/hqdefault.jpg "Ferguson Missouri Riots - Pastor Jonathan Gentry says STOP Looting- Michael Brown Shooting") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrMaPB2Dg0) A black pastor’s rant on Ferguson etc. that I can support a 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/989 "2014-08-17T16:06:07Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > … > > Ask yourself if you would defend your family by shooting to death your kid’s classmate for taking a brownie from his lunch tray. Some here undoubtedly would, if they could. That’s at one end of the scale, but what about someone attempting to destroying your only means of livelihood (your store for instance) and therefore your ability to provide for your family? It’s still essentially a property crime on it’s face. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/990 "2014-08-17T16:59:31Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Just for my own part, I always find it amazing when someone places a higher value on things than people. I don’t think life has any intrinsic value, if every single person who commits a violent crime died in the attempt the world immediately become a much better place. That places their value in the negative, certainly higher than say… a piece of gum which has a good couple minutes of tasty deliciousness going for it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/991 "2014-08-17T17:12:21Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > There’s no doubt that that’s the point he’s trying to make. But to do so with "if you’re willing to do legal act A (in many places) then you should be willing to do illegal act B (in all places) is a false equivalence, asinine and not worthy of a person of his obvious intellect. Yes, he should watch that, lest some think he’s blathering, ivory tower, ultra-partisan lefty. Perish the thought. ---
**Author:** ![kinoons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kinoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kinoons)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/992 "2014-08-17T17:13:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That’s at one end of the scale, but what about someone attempting to destroying your only means of livelihood (your store for instance) and therefore your ability to provide for your family? It’s still essentially a property crime on it’s face. I was just going to post the same thing – If you break into my house and want to steal my TV that’s fine. Hopefully you don’t make it out before the police arrive; I’m not coming downstairs to see what you are up to. However, if you attempt to come upstairs I will do everything I possibly can to my very last breath to stop you. This very much so includes shooting you. There is a great difference between you making out with my TV at home and you looting a store that is the owners single method for providing for his family. In that sense you again are attacking his family, not just getting a TV. In that case I can understand defending your store with potentially lethal force if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/993 "2014-08-17T17:23:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrMaPB2Dg0#t=279](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrMaPB2Dg0#t=279) > > A black pastor’s rant on Ferguson etc. that I can support a 100%. Friggin’ awesome. I like to know how its received by the black community, particularly in Furgeson. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/994 "2014-08-17T17:24:11Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I suppose I shouldn’t defend my family if I’m not willing to kidnap someone either. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/995 "2014-08-17T18:05:26Z")
A moral question does not evaporate because you can think up an exemption. Science is the only realm of human thought where absolutes have any value. There is a constellation of human rights, and of course, property is one. It is not first, it is not foremost, it is not central. And a thief can yet be reformed, a corpse can only be buried. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/996 "2014-08-17T19:01:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Friggin’ awesome. I like to know how its received by the black community, particularly in Furgeson. Yes, a black person has recorded an opinion! On YouTube!! The _black community_ must provide a response to this! Um… who do we call for that, exactly? And, just so we can compare that response to the reasonable and expected baseline, who’s got the _white community_ response duty this week? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/997 "2014-08-17T19:10:42Z")
Oh, its been taken care of, the Guns 'R Us stores have a fifty percent surcharge for a “They’re Coming To Get You!” sales promotion. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/998 "2014-08-17T19:20:30Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Yes, a black person has recorded an opinion! On YouTube!! The _black community_ must provide a response to this! > > Um… who do we call for that, exactly? And, just so we can compare that response to the reasonable and expected baseline, who’s got the _white community_ response duty this week? That makes almost as little sense as one of Elucidator’s posts. Almost. Put a little more oomph into it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/999 "2014-08-17T19:27:40Z")
Ha, ha, **Xeno**! **Mags** dislikes my posts more than yours! Neener-neener, gloat gloat, lord it over… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1000 "2014-08-17T19:27:47Z")
BTW - this is a bit of an off-topic, but what is with all the bottles of liquor in the supposed memorial on the site where Michael Brown was shot? Or is this a fake photo? There are flowers there - looks like a memorial, but I don’t get the liquor bottles. Is that something in “black culture” that I am not understanding? [http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/16517794/image/105792500-people-look-at-a-memorial-erected-on-the-site-where-michael-brown-was-shot-in-ferguson](http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/16517794/image/105792500-people-look-at-a-memorial-erected-on-the-site-where-michael-brown-was-shot-in-ferguson) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=51)