# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1381 "2014-08-19T15:26:34Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > See reply to **Morgenstern** , above. In addition, that’s _exactly_ what they’re saying the wound is “consistent with,” using the words I quoted above. It’s also possibly consistent with other relative positions and scenarios, but \*the doctors did not list any others \*in the press conference as reported in that article. And that’s not _my_ problem to deal with; you don’t like it take it up with the reporters or the doctors. They’re saying one shot is “back to front” and is consistent with being shot from the top or with a bent head. The other is indeterminate in terms of shot direction but based on it’s location is consistent with the story of him being initially shot at from the back and then turning around. (This seems pretty obvious and is also not a big deal - I am not inclined to argue this further.) ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1382 "2014-08-19T15:45:34Z")
I’ll also let the point regarding witness corroboration rest, as there will be at least two other autopsy reports and a wealth of other forensic evidence that may establish one particular scenario more definitely. But I will ask where you found a statement reported that the arm wound was “indeterminate in terms of shot direction” as I can’t find any such verbiage included in the article. I’m pretty sure shot direction through tissue can usually be determined, but that may not be true with some “grazing” wounds, and I can’t recall any definite statement from anybody that it’s unclear in the case of the arm wound. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1383 "2014-08-19T15:57:03Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I’ll also let the point regarding witness corroboration rest, as there will be at least two other autopsy reports and a wealth of other forensic evidence that may establish one particular scenario more definitely. > > But I will ask where you found a statement reported that the arm wound was “indeterminate in terms of shot direction” as I can’t find any such verbiage included in the article. I’m pretty sure shot direction through tissue can usually be determined, but that may not be true with some “grazing” wounds, and I can’t recall any definite statement from anybody that it’s unclear in the case of the arm wound. It’s where the pathologist stated that the arm is a very mobile appendage and it’s position can’t be stated with certainty. (Not exact quote) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1384 "2014-08-19T16:09:58Z")
[Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack](http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1385 "2014-08-19T16:16:56Z")
Not one, but two unidentified “sources”, this long after the event? Why would such a central fact only come out now? Odd that all the other stories have Wilson being scared and going into hiding, not the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1386 "2014-08-19T16:19:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack](http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/) _Two local St. Louis sources_?!? From one of the “leading right-of-center news websites”, cited by such prestigious newsmen as Hannity and Mark Levin?!? My god! Stop the presses! That Hannity guy’s got _two sources_!!! ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1387 "2014-08-19T16:22:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack](http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/) This type of fracture, I think, would be consistent with a downward blow aimed into a car. But this alone doesn’t mean anything if the officer then got out of the car pissed and started firing. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1388 "2014-08-19T16:25:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not one, but two unidentified “sources”, this long after the event? Why would such a central fact only come out now? > > Odd that all the other stories have Wilson being scared and going into hiding, not the hospital. What are you talking about? The fact that the police officer got [facial injurie](http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Chief-Officer-in-fatal-shooting-suffered-facial-injuries-271079471.html)s was reported long ago. This report just narrows it down. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1389 "2014-08-19T16:30:28Z")
Well, what else do we need? A clearly non-biased blogger offering rock solid information from “two local St. Louis sources”. And look! There’s a picture of an x-ray of what an orbital fracture looks like! Implication and insinuation being that it is an x-ray of the officer involved. But, of course, it isn’t, unless he went from Ferguson, MO to the University of Iowa to get an x-ray. See it there, on the lower right, **Terr**? “Univ of Iowa”? I’m thinking that means the University of Iowa is the place the x-ray was taken. Of course, to be strictly fair, nowhere does it actually \*say \*that this is an x-ray of the officer’s injury, so it cannot be definitely stated that the blog is lying. It is simply there to let the reader know what an x-ray of an orbital fracture looks like! Fucking pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1390 "2014-08-19T16:31:58Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > … > > “Back to front” in this context means “from the back of the arm toward to front of the arm.” Yes, that might also be consistent with a shot fired from in front of a man with his arms raised in a manner which presented the “back” of the arm toward the front. I am not a doctor, certainly not one of the doctors who performed the autopsy, so I can’t really say whether that’s true in this case. You’d have to ask them (which is more than reporters seem to want to do). See, that’s the problem right there. You clearly see the point, but so many assume the word _back_ means the shot _came_ from the back. In fact, the shot could just as well have come from the front and hit the back of a very mobile arm positioned with the back forward. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1391 "2014-08-19T16:33:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, what else do we need? A clearly non-biased blogger offering rock solid information from “two local St. Louis sources”. And look! There’s a picture of an x-ray of what an orbital fracture looks like! Implication and insinuation being that it is an x-ray of the officer involved. But, of course, it isn’t, unless he went from Ferguson, MO to the University of Iowa to get an x-ray. > > See it there, on the lower right, **Terr**? “Univ of Iowa”? I’m thinking that means the University of Iowa is the place the x-ray was taken. Of course, to be strictly fair, nowhere does it actually \*say \*that this is an x-ray of the officer’s injury, so it cannot be definitely stated that the blog is lying. It is simply there to let the reader know what an x-ray of an orbital fracture looks like! > > Fucking pathetic. What’s fucking pathetic is your post. The x-ray in the article is clearly a demonstration of what an orbital fracture looks like. There is no implication or insinuation. You are aware that there is no way someone’s medical records can be published on the Internet unless a permission was given? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1392 "2014-08-19T16:33:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, what else do we need? A clearly non-biased blogger offering rock solid information from “two local St. Louis sources”. And look! There’s a picture of an x-ray of what an orbital fracture looks like! Implication and insinuation being that it is an x-ray of the officer involved. But, of course, it isn’t, unless he went from Ferguson, MO to the University of Iowa to get an x-ray. > > See it there, on the lower right, **Terr**? “Univ of Iowa”? I’m thinking that means the University of Iowa is the place the x-ray was taken. Of course, to be strictly fair, nowhere does it actually \*say \*that this is an x-ray of the officer’s injury, so it cannot be definitely stated that the blog is lying. It is simply there to let the reader know what an x-ray of an orbital fracture looks like! > > Fucking pathetic. I noticed that too, however, at the very bottom of the article it states **“Officer Darren Wilson left the state of Missouri last week.”** I thought it perhaps possible that the x-ray was taken there if he was immediately whisked from the state. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1393 "2014-08-19T16:35:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What’s fucking pathetic is your post. The x-ray in the article is clearly a demonstration of what an orbital fracture looks like. There is no implication or insinuation. You are aware that there is no way someone’s medical records can be published on the Internet unless a permission was given? Then it should have a disclaimer. It’s sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1394 "2014-08-19T16:36:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > … > > The only people I’ve seen argue that the guy just decided to shoot a black guy because of racism is the people on the cops side. It appears to be a strawman used to discredit those who think the cop is wrong. > > … Just curious, perhaps you could shed some light on why the cop did shoot him? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1395 "2014-08-19T16:39:00Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > This type of fracture, I think, would be consistent with a downward blow aimed into a car. But this alone doesn’t mean anything if the officer then got out of the car pissed and started firing. Fuck you dude. Jesus fucking Christ. Nothing short of a 5 angle video of this incident showing MB identify himself to the camera, explain that he’s going to attack the cop, then following through is going to convince you to put any of the responsibility on him is it? There will not be a point at which the protestors and rioters ever acknowledge that they were nothing but a bunch of sheep engaged in Borg style group think raging against a cold blooded cop who killed an innocent college bound boy based on nothing but a bunch of bullshit. Nothing but a bunch of people trying to deflect any and all responsibility from MB for any of his actions. At some point the African American community is going to need to stop blaming white people for all of their ills and start taking responsibility for their own behavior. What started this? The cop shooting MB? No. MBs behavior and shitty decision making did. The cops in Ferguson just made it worse once the rioting started. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1396 "2014-08-19T16:39:19Z")
As I can figure out from the numerous articles and editorials, this was a case of “murder by police”, and it was not the first time. According to some claims and reports, the perp Wilson has been a “problem” before. According to some articles and edittorials, the police have been abusive and out of control for years. We already know the police do not have to protect anyone, thanks to the Supreme Court (ast least they had the balls to openly say it). So what IS their function? > [@septimus](#): > > Once again, let’s all blame the victims. > > Leave it to the right-wing racist assholes to make the story about the looters, not about the innocent unarmed teenager shot dead by police. > > Check Google news right now and find, not one, but at least three recent stories of U.S. police using excessive force, often including death, to subdue people accused of jaywalking or such. In every case the victim is black; the cop white. > > Is outrage by the black community justified? I think so. Is it “human nature” that a few opportunists will take advantage of chaos to commit theft? Were the situation reversed, you can bet that white-skinned red-necked racist assholes would be looting and stealing with both hands. It doesn’t matter if it is Ferguson, Los Angeles, New York, or any of the other cities. When police are militarized, feel no need to protect anyone, and have carte blanche to shot or beat unarmed people to death, hiow the fuck do you expect The People to react? > [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I find myself doubting the officer’s explanation of events. Even if they are true, he still unloaded a magazine into an unarmed man. > > I was surprised to learn that the Ferguson PD cars aren’t equipped with dash cameras. Emptied his gun into an UNARMED person. Now the cops and Fox “News” types are trying to blame the victim. He stole a cigar from a store – but the store never called the cops and video shows him paying. Then he was on “the pot” according to some “expert” for hire. BULLSHIT. I have no doubt this was racially motivated murder. > [@septimus](#): > > Duh, looters exploit riots. In other news, dog bites man in Idaho. Duh. What a bunch of dolts some of you are. > > That you pretend I called the looters victims shows how much your head is stuck up your ass. > > [Cops in Antioch, Calif. brutalize a mentally ill man.](http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/homeless-man-talks-about-alleged-antioch-police-br/ngyhk/) > > [In New York City, an unarmed man is choked to death by cops for selling cigarettes](http://rt.com/usa/179752-nyc-police-choke-cameras/). > > [Near Los Angeles, a cop brutalizes a homeless woman for jaywalking.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXF3hf87emk) > > These are just a few recent stories that showed up quickly with Google. > > Yet the take-away lesson by some Dopers is about looting, and, I suppose, the need for more police brutality to combat looting. > > Sheeeez. It’s time to prosecute bad cops instead of protecting them. It’s time to stop demonizing their victims. It’s time to take away their army toys because they have shown they can’t be trusted. It’s time to put cameras that they can NOT turn off in their cars and on their persons. It’s time to get back to at least the ideal of “preserve and protect” and get away from “you will submit”. Enough is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1397 "2014-08-19T16:48:03Z")
Concluding that we now have enough evidence to convince any reasonable observer that the shooting was justified just shows you are not a reasonable person. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1398 "2014-08-19T16:51:06Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > What started this? The cop shooting MB? No. MBs behavior and shitty decision making did. Can you believe those negro savages? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1399 "2014-08-19T16:51:40Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Fuck you dude. Jesus fucking Christ. Nothing short of a 5 angle video of this incident showing MB identify himself to the camera, explain that he’s going to attack the cop, then following through is going to convince you to put any of the responsibility on him is it? > > There will not be a point at which the protestors and rioters ever acknowledge that they were nothing but a bunch of sheep engaged in Borg style group think raging against a cold blooded cop who killed an innocent college bound boy based on nothing but a bunch of bullshit. Nothing but a bunch of people trying to deflect any and all responsibility from MB for any of his actions. At some point the African American community is going to need to stop blaming white people for all of their ills and start taking responsibility for their own behavior. > > What started this? The cop shooting MB? No. MBs behavior and shitty decision making did. The cops in Ferguson just made it worse once the rioting started. Again, just because the officer got socked in the eye doesn’t give him the right to kill someone. If the perpetrator isn’t a lethal threat, you don’t get to shoot. Period. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1400 "2014-08-19T16:53:43Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Can you believe those negro savages? Is there a reason you cut off the last piece of that quote? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=69) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=71)