# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 77
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1521 "2014-08-19T22:22:49Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Perhaps. It could also be an after-the-fact justification. We have no real way of knowing this either. Brown’s accomplice admitted last week that Brown had robbed the store. Brown and his accomplice knew they had evidence of the strong arm robbery in their possession. That fact could have influenced any action taken by Brown when he interacted with the police. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1522 "2014-08-19T22:24:42Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Hard to disagree, however---- dash cams typically point forward, don’t they? Not sure how much value they would add when the action is (allegedly) happening outside the driver’s side door. We need Robocop. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1523 "2014-08-19T22:28:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/08/ferguson-police-shooter-s-name-revealed-106115.html](http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/08/ferguson-police-shooter-s-name-revealed-106115.html) > > Police said they found evidence of the stolen merchandise on Brown’s body. > > You want pictures of the cigars? Or the cigars themselves? When the investigation ends, if there is a trial, I am sure you will see them. If there isn’t, you won’t. But when the investigation ends, the police reports will become public, and you can see where the cigars found on the body are mentioned. > > The same with the rest of it. It is an ongoing investigation. Those records are not yet public. I think the coroner who did the first autopsy spoke to the press, but the report is not public. Oh, its an ongoing investigation! Well, that changes nothing! Are they obliged or is it privileged to withhold public records and information? Gosh, that videotape sure leaked out in a hurry, leaked in the sense that they yelled “Hey! Look over here!” And the car? And the scene report? You know, car here, body there, first shell casing here, second one there… Guess that didn’t leak out, huh? Or, was never done? Anybody have any pictures like that, cops fanning out with measuring tapes and evidence bags, and stuff? Anybody see them doing any of that, in the hours the body lay there. What was it, four hours, never got around to it? Perhaps it is a “crime scene” thing, and there was no crime. Just another routine, run of the mill teenage suicide by cop. So, really, why bother… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1524 "2014-08-19T22:31:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Yep. I know what’s best, and if I was that cop, the boy wouldn’t have died. > > Pilots and doctors don’t wield instruments of death and aren’t in general assholes so I don’t armchair quarterback them. No, no-one’s ever died when someone misused a scalpel or failed to fly a plane correctly… Not that that’s particularly relevant, as you still somehow continue to miss the fact that _there’s nothing wrong with killing someone who’s attacking you_. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1525 "2014-08-19T22:32:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, its an ongoing investigation! Well, that changes nothing! Are they obliged or is it privileged to withhold public records and information? Gosh, that videotape sure leaked out in a hurry, leaked in the sense that they yelled “Hey! Look over here!” I think you’re being stupid on purpose. They are not withholding public records. They are withholding records that are NOT public - yet. The videotape didn’t “leak” - it was released, under an FOIA request, because it was not part of the investigation - the suspect was dead, so there was no investigation. The accompanying police report was also released, also under an FOIA request. What is your problem with that? You want the police NOT to comply with such requests? > [@](#): > > And the car? And the scene report? You know, car here, body there, first shell casing here, second one there… Guess that didn’t leak out, huh? Or, was never done? No, didn’t leak. What is your problem with that? Do you want the police to leak out information that they are not supposed to make public? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1526 "2014-08-19T23:15:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > A “shove” is still assault and battery. No. Not if there was no intent to harm and no actual harm, which was what the report said. The apparent significance is that there was no guilty state of mind on Brown’s part when the fatal confrontation took place. (I use the weasel word “apparently” there because nothing about this case is set in stone.) ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1527 "2014-08-19T23:17:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Doesn’t the video show the clerk putting hands on Brown first? And if Brown had not, in fact, stolen anything, doesn’t that mean he was entirely within his rights to shove him away? Stand your ground probably only applies to guns. Maybe he’d of been OK if he’d taken out a gun and killed the clerk after he was grabbed. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1528 "2014-08-19T23:21:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The store owner didn’t report the theft because he is terrified that he will be killed if word gets out that he did that. (Saw this in a linked article a few days ago but coudn’t find it just now.) Not the way that came out to me. He didn’t want it MISTAKENLY thought that he’d called in a theft, that was, in fact, not a theft. I’ll repeat the link: > **[Attorney For Ferguson Market: NO ONE From His Store Called 911 To Report...](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft)** > > St. Louis local news is reporting that the Attorney for the Ferguson store, Jake Kanzler said the the Ferguson store owner, nor any store employee called the police to report any ... ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1529 "2014-08-19T23:26:16Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Stand your ground probably only applies to guns. > > Maybe he’d of been OK if he’d taken out a gun and killed the clerk after he was grabbed. Stand your ground applies to your right of self-defense, not to your weapon of choice. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1530 "2014-08-19T23:29:36Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Not the way that came out to me. He didn’t want it MISTAKENLY thought that he’d called in a theft, that was, in fact, not a theft. > > I’ll repeat the link: > [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft) The link does not show Brown paying for the cigars. Brown’s accomplice has already admitted to robbing the store. The dailykos is publishing lies. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1531 "2014-08-19T23:36:48Z")
Before I go off half-cocked, what’s the straight dope on the following headlines (summarized ;not quoted) I’ve run across… Democrats set up voter registration booths in Ferguson Media puts out maps to the cop’s house AP violates own style rules by referring to Big Mike as a teenager rather than as a man ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1532 "2014-08-19T23:37:02Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > No. Not if there was no intent to harm and no actual harm, which was what the report said. > > The apparent significance is that there was no guilty state of mind on Brown’s part when the fatal confrontation took place. (I use the weasel word “apparently” there because nothing about this case is set in stone.) Shoving a clerk who is trying to prevent you from stealing cigars is considered battery. Battery is the criminal offense involving unlawful physical contact. Assault is the act of threatening or creating apprehension of such unlawful physical contact. If Brown threatened the clerk, that’s assault. If Brown grabbed the clerk and pushed him into the racks, like he did in the video, that’s battery. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1533 "2014-08-19T23:39:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > …No, didn’t leak. What is your problem with that? Do you want the police to leak out information that they are not supposed to make public? My problem? The lack of any evidence that it even happened. Body lay there for hours, all kinds of people watching, yet no pictures, no testimony, no mention of cops going over the area, measuring distances, noting where shell casings fell… Rather odd, don’t you think? Or don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1534 "2014-08-19T23:43:45Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Before I go off half-cocked, what’s the straight dope on the following headlines (summarized ;not quoted) I’ve run across… > > Democrats set up voter registration booths in Ferguson > > Media puts out maps to the cop’s house > > AP violates own style rules by referring to Big Mike as a teenager rather than as a man So you throw out a bunch of headlines, apparently not even quoted correctly, without bothering to link to the supposed articles they represent, and somehow expect us to research them for you? How about you tell us what you think the deal is (although I think I can guess). ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1535 "2014-08-19T23:57:45Z")
The prosecutor in this is the prosecutor who charged Axl Rose back in the early 90’s. Although it looks like this prosecutor will have to step aside. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1536 "2014-08-19T23:58:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My problem? The lack of any evidence that it even happened. Body lay there for hours, all kinds of people watching, yet no pictures, no testimony, no mention of cops going over the area, measuring distances, noting where shell casings fell… > > Rather odd, don’t you think? Or don’t you? You have no idea who was measuring what. No pictures doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I am pretty sure when the investigation is over, and this stuff is public, it will come out. And you, of course, will be all of a sudden very quiet about you previous allegations. Just like you were about chief of police supposedly changing his story. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1537 "2014-08-19T23:59:53Z")
> [@chicagowhitesox1173](#): > > Although it looks like this prosecutor will have to step aside. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1538 "2014-08-20T00:06:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cite? I saw it on CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1539 "2014-08-20T00:07:26Z")
> [@chicagowhitesox1173](#): > > I saw it on CNN. I see a lot of blah blah on CNN. I don’t see any indication whatsoever that the prosecutor is going to recuse himself. Or that he should. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1540 "2014-08-20T00:15:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cite? There is some discussion about his fitness to be impartial but I don’t see that he’s planning on stepping down, > **[Concerns arise about prosecutor in Michael Brown case | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-prosecutor-mcculloch/index.html)** > > While protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, are demanding justice for the killing of Michael Brown by police, questions are being asked about the man who at the moment is responsible for pursuing any prosecution and whether he can be impartial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=76) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=78)