# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 87
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1721 "2014-08-20T20:33:30Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > If Marissa Alexander had killed her husband or whoever the guy was, do you think she’d have been legally better off or worse? Worse. Alexander wasn’t facing imminent danger. Alexander WAS the imminent danger. If Alexander had killed her (ex?)husband, she would have been facing some level of murder charge. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1722 "2014-08-20T20:35:36Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > If Marissa Alexander had killed her husband or whoever the guy was, do you think she’d have been legally better off or worse? Better. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1723 "2014-08-20T20:36:41Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Wow talk about becoming part of the story. Does the media officially outnumber the protesters yet? Who cares? What matters is that a police officer pointed a gun at a citizen and threatened to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1724 "2014-08-20T20:39:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Absolutely not. At this stage, I’d point out that what my guy says is absolutely key to a very public, very stinky mess, and ask for transactional immunity before he said a word. That may be the case here and it sounds like good lawyering. But the police said specifically that Johnson was not a suspect in the robbery because the video did not show him partaking in any illegal activity at the time. Just being there does not necessarily make you an accomplice. At this time I would like to lodge a formal complaint. The principle people in this incident all have names that are way to common. I have to stop and think about Wilson, Johnson and Brown every time I write to make sure I get it right. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1725 "2014-08-20T20:39:24Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Indeed - you’re only interested in the “useful”, pertinent aspects of the situation. I also have no idea what kind of camera was used to record the incident, FTR - guess I’m a big ol’ dummy all around! (post shortened) FTR - I don’t know you well enough to guess what kind of dummy you are. Perhaps you could provide a list of the many things that you don’t know and I’ll peruse it at my leisure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1726 "2014-08-20T20:39:58Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > If that’s, in fact, what happened. There is at least one witness that states Wilson made a grab for Brown through the car window. Not sure how much I’d fault Brown for resisting under those circumstances. That’s just not credible. I can’t see a cop trying to apprehend a suspect from inside his car. He’d get out of the car first. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1727 "2014-08-20T20:40:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Marissa Alexander has zero to do with this, best as I can tell. > > MA claimed she only fired a warning shot - there was considerable skepticism as to whether this was what she did. Beyond that, the alleged fact of her firing a warning shot was not used to prove that she was not in imminent danger - which is what you’re claiming. It was the fact that she left the scene and came back with a gun that did her in. [http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/06/marissa-alexander-who-fired-warning-shot-at-husband-attacking-her-likely-won-t-see-prison-after-flor.html](http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/06/marissa-alexander-who-fired-warning-shot-at-husband-attacking-her-likely-won-t-see-prison-after-flor.html) Florida Governor Rick Scott signed new guidelines into law Friday, inspired by Alexander’s case, ABC News reported. The law allows Floridia residents who threaten to use a gun or who fire a warning shot to protect themselves the chance to avoid criminal prosecution. By the way, the law didn’t help her, since the judge in the case ruled that it cannot be retroactively applied. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1728 "2014-08-20T20:45:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Dr. **Bricker,** Dr. **Parker** , Code Blue. Dr. **Bricker** , Dr. **Parker** … See, **Terr** , this is what confidence looks like. **elucidator** is sure you’re wrong – wrong enough that he’ll risk asking me. And his bet pays off, because you are, in fact, completely incorrect. Marissa Alexander was not sunk because she fired a warning shot. Her problem was that her claim of self-defense was destroyed because she left the supposed lethal threat in the living room, went to the garage to get a gun, and returned to the kitchen, after which she fired the “warning shot.” It’s possible to imagine some specific factual situations in which a warning shot destroys a self-defense claim, but it’s by no means a _per se_ rule. Now, there are 197 different valid reasons that “warning shots” and “shoot him in the leg” scenarios are nonsense, offered up by people with no understanding beyond Hollywood-type gun procedure. But you have unfortunately hung your hat on reason #198, an invalid one. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1729 "2014-08-20T20:47:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That may be the case here and it sounds like good lawyering. But the police said specifically that Johnson was not a suspect in the robbery because the video did not show him partaking in any illegal activity at the time. Just being there does not necessarily make you an accomplice. And my answer to that police comment would be, “Great, then you obviously have no problem with transactional immunity!” ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1730 "2014-08-20T20:53:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You’re in the street, all alone. A 6’4" 300 pound guy just shoved your door shut on you as you tried to exit your car. Then he hit you in the face and wrestled with you. Now, he backs off and charges you. You have a gun. What do you do? I don’t buy that Brown backed off and then charged. I’ve asked this before… Why run AWAY from the gun, then run TO it? I can turn your question around . . . A 6’3" - 6’5" inch, 240 - 260 lb cop, just managed to thwart your attempt to wrestle his gun away and even manages to get one shot off. You book. But the cop fires at you, so you stop to surrender. But he’s still firing. What CAN you do? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1731 "2014-08-20T20:55:37Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Who cares? What matters is that a police officer pointed a gun at a citizen and threatened to kill him. Not a civilian. A _journalist_. Which is a class much less worthy of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1732 "2014-08-20T20:56:37Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Crispus Attucks had it coming. Well, yeah, he did. You take your life into your own hands when you decide to fuck with the powers that be. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1733 "2014-08-20T20:58:04Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Who cares? What matters is that a police officer pointed a gun at a citizen and threatened to kill him. I am allowed to make a point that is tangential to yours. I did not mean for it to be a rebuttal. Yep. He came unhinged. Did I give any excuse for that? I have no idea what happened before that to make him lose it. If that was filmed it seems to be edited out. But it is ridiculous that one guy gets surrounded by what, 30 reporters? Not filmed. Surrounded. You don’t think that the media circus is contributing to the chaos? The “press” is bringing a paparazzi attitude to the situation and making things worse. I’m sure most of the worst offenders are internet reporters with tenuous credentials at best but even the big names are guilty. I saw Anderson Cooper out there saying something like, “It seems calm right now but there are a lot of people milling around here right now. I’m not sure why.” Maybe because a world famous media figure is standing on the street with bright lights and a film crew? I’m waiting for the inevitable news report about the news reporting. There is nothing more important than a free press. But there is a point in high profile cases when they become part of the story and not just reporting on it. We are way past that point now. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1734 "2014-08-20T20:58:37Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Got it, so it it never ok to stand up to authority? Boston, Prague, Budapest, Tiananmen Square, Warsaw, they all got what they had coming? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1735 "2014-08-20T20:58:46Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > That’s just not credible. I can’t see a cop trying to apprehend a suspect from inside his car. He’d get out of the car first. Who knows at this point? Thinking about it, Brown should also have some evidence of a struggle in the manner of contusions and whatnot. Perhaps we’ll learn more from the full autopsy findings. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1736 "2014-08-20T20:59:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And my answer to that police comment would be, “Great, then you obviously have no problem with transactional immunity!” And behind closed doors I would not be surprised if that happened. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1737 "2014-08-20T21:00:11Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Got it, so it it never ok to stand up to authority? Boston, Prague, Budapest, Tiananmen Square, Warsaw, they all got what they had coming? Certainly, they all legally had it coming, but I suspect that’s not what you’re asking. The big difference is that none of them were (functional) democracies, unlike modern America. When provided with legitimate and effective means to question authority, it’s usually wrong to use other means. It’s also the case that, despite what protesters in general think, the right to question authority doesn’t give you the right to get the answers you like. What _does_ get you that is getting elected with a mandate to change things to the way you want. If the whole community is so united against the status quo, it’s odd that they haven’t expressed that… If, however, the majority is on reflection fine with the police (and others) defending themselves, and using some level of force to control situations, then the question has been asked and answered, and the protests are irrelevant, and only the nuisance value remains. And one purpose of a society is to remove nuisances. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1738 "2014-08-20T21:04:18Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I am allowed to make a point that is tangential to yours. I did not mean for it to be a rebuttal. > > Yep. He came unhinged. Did I give any excuse for that? I have no idea what happened before that to make him lose it. If that was filmed it seems to be edited out. > > But it is ridiculous that one guy gets surrounded by what, 30 reporters? Not filmed. Surrounded. You don’t think that the media circus is contributing to the chaos? The “press” is bringing a paparazzi attitude to the situation and making things worse. I’m sure most of the worst offenders are internet reporters with tenuous credentials at best but even the big names are guilty. I saw Anderson Cooper out there saying something like, “It seems calm right now but there are a lot of people milling around here right now. I’m not sure why.” Maybe because a world famous media figure is standing on the street with bright lights and a film crew? I’m waiting for the inevitable news report about the news reporting. There is nothing more important than a free press. But there is a point in high profile cases when they become part of the story and not just reporting on it. We are way past that point now. When I look at that clip and try to figure out which unprofessional behavior I find most upsetting, it’s not so much the reporters as the police officer pointing his gun at citizens and threatening murder. Also, based on that clip if I’m trying to pin down what might be contributing to the tensions in the area, I’m once again going to focus on the unhinged police officer threatening to murder citizens while pointing a gun at them. I’m funny that way. I find it really telling that the usual suspects are trying to act like that cop’s behavior is no big deal. He is the embodiment of why people in Ferguson are upset. The police are out of control and they clearly are not used to anyone questioning or challenging their behavior. I want more reporters in town. I want everyone to take a good hard look at what the police are doing there and ask themselves is it right? ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1739 "2014-08-20T21:06:04Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > No matter what happened to Michael Brown, kicking out Amnesty International is incredibly tone deaf on the part of the police. I’ve not been following this thread much, but I did run across this post and thought I’d report what I saw on Al Jazeera America about half an hour ago. A representative from Amnesty International said that they were not forced out Monday night. Paraphrasing, when reporters were asked to leave for their safety, AI decided to leave as well. Apparently police told the group of reporters to “get down” for some reason and the AI people got down on their knees briefly, but not at gun point, nor were they expelled at gun point. Just fighting the spread of exaggerated rumor. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1740 "2014-08-20T21:07:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. Vacationing in Pyongyang this year? I hear it’s your kinda place. Orderly, no pesky protests or civil liberties, lots of terrified submission to tyrannical authority, executions galore, the whole package. Rat out a few dissidents and you might even earn yourself an extra bowl of tree bark soup. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=86) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=88)