# Ferguson, MO **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354 "2014-08-12T04:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1741 "2014-08-20T21:08:47Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I can turn your question around . . . > > A 6’3" - 6’5" inch, 240 - 260 lb cop, just managed to thwart your attempt to wrestle his gun away and even manages to get one shot off. You book. But the cop fires at you, so you stop to surrender. But he’s still firing. What CAN you do? I’ll give you an equally worthless answer while also avoiding your question. I’d outrun the bullets. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1742 "2014-08-20T21:09:50Z")
I also love that the people who think that Brown deserved to be shot six times for allegedly punching a cop have no problem with a cop pointing a weapon at a crowd of people and threatening to murder them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1743 "2014-08-20T21:10:09Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Vacationing in Pyongyang this year? I hear it’s your kinda place. Orderly, no pesky protests or civil liberties, lots of terrified submission to tyrannical authority, executions galore, the whole package. Rat out a few dissidents and you might even earn yourself an extra bowl of tree bark soup. If you were a North Korean, would you think it wise to stand out in the middle of the road waving a sign and chanting for democracy? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1744 "2014-08-20T21:13:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you were a North Korean, would you think it wise to stand out in the middle of the road waving a sign and chanting for democracy? You don’t really ‘get’ courage, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1745 "2014-08-20T21:15:17Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You don’t really ‘get’ courage, do you? Having been courageous is of little value to the dead. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1746 "2014-08-20T21:19:28Z")
So…no. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1747 "2014-08-20T21:21:11Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > Just fighting the spread of exaggerated rumor. Carry on. You’re gonna need a bigger boat. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1748 "2014-08-20T21:25:47Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Got it, so it it never ok to stand up to authority? Boston, Prague, Budapest, Tiananmen Square, Warsaw, they all got what they had coming? > ETA: Also, please explain why it matters if the officer’s gun is automatic. I’m not sure what you’ve got but I think it’s a good idea to always get the best lawyer you can afford when you decide to stand up to authority. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1749 "2014-08-20T21:30:47Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Certainly, they all legally had it coming, but I suspect that’s not what you’re asking. The big difference is that none of them were (functional) democracies, unlike modern America. When provided with legitimate and effective means to question authority, it’s usually wrong to use other means. > > It’s also the case that, despite what protesters in general think, the right to question authority doesn’t give you the right to get the answers you like. What _does_ get you that is getting elected with a mandate to change things to the way you want. If the whole community is so united against the status quo, it’s odd that they haven’t expressed that… > > If, however, the majority is on reflection fine with the police (and others) defending themselves, and using some level of force to control situations, then the question has been asked and answered, and the protests are irrelevant, and only the nuisance value remains. And one purpose of a society is to remove nuisances. As has been noted, Ferguson has some strange election laws that seem to have been intended to keep voter turn out low and keep municipal government in the hands of an entrenched group. Municipal elections are held in April, not in November when large, national elections are held. As a result, voter turnout for municipal elections is around 11%. Interestingly, when groups used the protests in Ferguson as an opportunity to register voters, the MO GOP called the move “playing the race card.” Also, if you have an armed police officer pointing a gun at citizens and threatening to kill them for participating in a protest, I would argue that you don’t really have a functioning democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1750 "2014-08-20T21:31:07Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > … a cop pointing a weapon at a crowd of people and threatening to murder them. Crowd? Was it a crowd or a single person? What was edited out of that tape that may well put that in a different light, you know the three or four minutes preceding the cop speaking? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1751 "2014-08-20T21:31:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m not sure what you’ve got but I think it’s a good idea to always get the best lawyer you can afford when you decide to stand up to authority. So it’s really for rich people? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1752 "2014-08-20T21:39:31Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > As has been noted, Ferguson has some strange election laws that seem to have been intended to keep voter turn out low and keep municipal government in the hands of an entrenched group. Municipal elections are held in April, not in November when large, national elections are held. As a result, voter turnout for municipal elections is around 11%. Interestingly, when groups used the protests in Ferguson as an opportunity to register voters, the MO GOP called the move “playing the race card.” If they care enough to protest, they care enough to vote - if that’s actually their aim. But yeah, saying “vote so there’s black people in the government” _is_ playing the race card. Doesn’t make it wrong though, but ideally we’d get the best people in government regardless of race. > [@](#): > > Also, if you have an armed police officer pointing a gun at citizens and threatening to kill them for participating in a protest, I would argue that you don’t really have a functioning democracy. Not really. Firstly, protest is more or less orthogonal to democracy, as it neither can nor should change anything except opinions - and there’s better ways to do that than shouting on street corners these days. Secondly, the actions of one individual have no bearing on whether democracy is functioning, especially when those actions are condemned by the authority involved. The only reason that there’s no functioning democracy there is that 89% of people have chosen not to vote. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1753 "2014-08-20T21:44:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So it’s really for rich people? What do you believe is for rich people? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1754 "2014-08-20T21:50:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > 😕 You should just c&p this to be the entire content of every post you make. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1755 "2014-08-20T21:59:23Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’ll give you an equally worthless answer while also avoiding your question. > > I’d outrun the bullets. You’d end up like Mike Brown. Be dead with people making up worthless scenarios like saying you charged at a loaded gun to justify your death. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1756 "2014-08-20T22:02:54Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > You’d end up like Mike Brown. Be dead with people making up worthless scenarios like saying you charged at a loaded gun to justify your death. You misunderstood the word “outrun.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1757 "2014-08-20T22:02:56Z")
[The Dream Defenders](http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/08/14/4290418/local-groups-gather-to-support.html) [are back](http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/2014/08/18/dream-defenders-organize-tallahassee-hands-march/14270583/). ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1758 "2014-08-20T22:16:02Z")
Here’s a question that may shed more light on the various positions of posters in this thread: Would the protestor who that cop threatened to kill have been legally justified in killing the cop in self-defense? Why or why not? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1759 "2014-08-20T22:20:08Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Here’s a question that may shed more light on the various positions of posters in this thread: > > Would the protestor who that cop threatened to kill have been legally justified in killing the cop in self-defense? Why or why not? “Killing a cop in self-defense” is an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/1760 "2014-08-20T22:21:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Killing a cop in self-defense” is an oxymoron. Dear Christ, there’s a reason people keep bringing up North Korea in regards to your opinions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354.md?page=89)