# Fiction - How many coincidences ruin a plot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819 "2012-10-05T16:09:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/21 "2012-10-06T00:09:15Z")
Yeah, one too many. There isn’t a set number, it depends on the length of the work in question and how big the coincidence is. The best example I have is from… I forgot what it’s called. Some movie with Kevin Spacey and the little kid from 6th Sense and uh, maybe Helen Hunt? as an alcoholic mom. Anyway, all through the movie the kid was doing nice things for other people as part of a school project. Eventually, his philosophy got him a tv interview. Then, after the interview he got stabbed by a bully he’d stood up to, in full view of a teacher. I literally screamed at the screen in disgust. It was so convenient and shoddily-done that it made the whole fucking movie (which had been pretty good up to that point) feel like a cheap made-for-tv morality play. I can’t remember feeling more angered by poor script-writing in my life than in that moment. Even just thinking about it makes me ARGH :mad: I never did figure out how that movie ended, nor do I care to. Because one “coincidence” sucked so badly that it ruined the entire goddamn thing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/22 "2012-10-06T00:09:54Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > It depends heavily on the style of the story. I’m much more forgiving of coincidence in humorous fiction, for instance. Having a canon justification for apparent coincidences in the story can also help. > > In _Bridge of Birds_, for example, Barry Hughart meets both criteria while hanging a lampshade on the whole affair. As his Master Li put it, “If I were to try to count the incredible coincidences of our quest on my fingers, I would wind up with ten badly sprained digits, and I am far too old to believe in coincidences. We are being led toward something…” As Elan explains it in this _Order of the Stick_ [strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), “A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/23 "2012-10-06T00:13:18Z")
My rule of thumb is that most works of fiction - books, movies, TV series, whatever - have plot holes in them. But if you can enjoy the work without noticing the plot holes, it was well done. Plot holes are only a problem if you notice them as they’re happening - any plot holes you don’t notice until after the end of the work don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/24 "2012-10-06T05:03:07Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > The best example I have is from… I forgot what it’s called. Some movie with Kevin Spacey and the little kid from 6th Sense and uh, maybe Helen Hunt? as an alcoholic mom. Anyway, all through the movie the kid was doing nice things for other people as part of a school project. Eventually, his philosophy got him a tv interview. Sounds like _Pay It Forward_. Instead of doing something nice for someone who did something nice for you, do something nice to the next person who needs something nice done. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As Elan explains it in this _Order of the Stick_ [strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), “A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing.” Terry Pratchett does much the same in _Guards, Guards!_ So much so that a character massages the question until the odds are “one in a million”, and then it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/25 "2012-10-06T05:29:57Z")
One of my favorite mystery writers, Ross MacDonald, kind of works the coincidence thing in reverse. The detective on the case discovers, as he investigates, a series of seeming coincidental relationships between the characters involved in the case. Person X is Person Y’s long lost sister, the deceased lived in the same house as someone who vanished years before she died. But as he investigates further, he discovers what actually occurred, and the narrative of what actually occurred resolves all the coincidences … they weren’t coincidences … the sister was not long lost but secretly blackmailing the brother, the deceased was killed by the same person as the person who disappeared … it’s all very neatly done, and there are generally half a dozen or so such coincidences that neatly resolve into a single narrative that explains all including who the murderer is. Which is probably why his books are so popular, that approach makes for a plot that rolls right along. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/26 "2012-10-06T08:19:18Z")
Well, the first coincidence is acceptable. The second is happenstance. The third is enemy action. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/27 "2012-10-06T11:14:31Z")
I can accept any coincidence no problem, as long as it’s not one resolving plot points. You know, like: _“And now Bond, I’m going to unleash my shark robots on you and…” SZKAZZR! “General! Lightning just destroyed the generator and there’s no power on the whole Island of Doom!” “Curses! He escaped! Again!”_ That totally kills any regard I have for a story. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/28 "2012-10-06T11:16:52Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Yeah, one too many. There isn’t a set number, it depends on the length of the work in question and how big the coincidence is. The best example I have is from… I forgot what it’s called. Some movie with Kevin Spacey and the little kid from 6th Sense and uh, maybe Helen Hunt? as an alcoholic mom. Anyway, all through the movie the kid was doing nice things for other people as part of a school project. Eventually, his philosophy got him a tv interview. Then, after the interview he got stabbed by a bully he’d stood up to, in full view of a teacher. > > I literally screamed at the screen in disgust. It was so convenient and shoddily-done that it made the whole fucking movie (which had been pretty good up to that point) feel like a cheap made-for-tv morality play. I can’t remember feeling more angered by poor script-writing in my life than in that moment. Even just thinking about it makes me ARGH :mad: > > I never did figure out how that movie ended, nor do I care to. Because one “coincidence” sucked so badly that it ruined the entire goddamn thing. But that’s not a coincidence, is it? It’s action - reaction. You may find it an unlikely, silly reaction, but it’s no coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/29 "2012-10-06T11:35:33Z")
This is the issue I have with the Stig Larson series. Mikael Blomquist is a babe magnet, reasonably well off magazine part-owner, writer, not sure what other duties he has at Millenium because when we see him he is getting a verdict of guilty, a contract for a years work and a million kroner and moving to an almost private island to work on a book. He seems to have more or less unlimited expense account to pursue whatever he needs to over the 3 books to prove Salander is not guilty. He gets several women. He gets interviewed for television and print … :dubious::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/30 "2012-10-06T11:55:18Z")
IIRC, a chap named Charles Dickens didn’t do too badly as a writer, and always LOTS of coincidences… ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/31 "2012-10-06T16:32:09Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > This is the issue I have with the Stig Larson series. Mikael Blomquist is a babe magnet, reasonably well off magazine part-owner, writer, not sure what other duties he has at Millenium because when we see him he is getting a verdict of guilty, a contract for a years work and a million kroner and moving to an almost private island to work on a book. He seems to have more or less unlimited expense account to pursue whatever he needs to over the 3 books to prove Salander is not guilty. He gets several women. He gets interviewed for television and print … :dubious::rolleyes: That sounds more like a Mary Sue scenario than an overload of coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/32 "2012-10-06T17:35:18Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > That sounds more like a Mary Sue scenario than an overload of coincidence. Read the trilogy sometime, Salander is a major hacker, has a circle of hacker friends that can pull stuff off that the phone company can’t manage, she happens to know all these important people who are just positive she couldn’t be a murderer … one of the cops just pulls the fact he knows a previous prime minister more or less personally out of his ass the instant they are thinking they may need to talk to the guy … Yes, Mikael is a mary sue, but there are so many coincedences popping up Rob and I turned it into a drinking game … ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819/33 "2012-10-06T18:18:21Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Read the trilogy sometime, Salander is a major hacker, has a circle of hacker friends that can pull stuff off that the phone company can’t manage, she happens to know all these important people who are just positive she couldn’t be a murderer … one of the cops just pulls the fact he knows a previous prime minister more or less personally out of his ass the instant they are thinking they may need to talk to the guy … Yes, Mikael is a mary sue, but there are so many coincedences popping up Rob and I turned it into a drinking game … Well, she’s a super-hacker. She’s bound to know precisely other people like her. Sweden’s a small place, so somebody knowing somehow a former PM is not that shocking. There are some coincidences in the narrative, like how characters in Salander’s life are either evil sociopaths or noble mavericks in love with her, but I wouldn’t call the Millenium trilogy particularly coincidence dirven. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-how-many-coincidences-ruin-a-plot/636819.md?page=1)