# Fiction \*starring\* fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147 "2011-03-10T06:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/41 "2011-03-10T19:08:47Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I’d contribute **The Lord of the Rings** , supposedly a scholarly translation of Bilbo’s diaries, supplemented by Frodo and others. Bilbo’s diaries weren’t fictional (or rather, they weren’t fictional in the LOTR stories). So that would be “fiction starring non-fiction” ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/42 "2011-03-10T19:32:29Z")
> [@rjk](#): > > What I’d like to see is works in which the inner work drives the plot, and the characters are driven by that. _Synecdoche, New York_ is about a man directing a play about a man directing a play about a man directing a play… ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/43 "2011-03-10T19:32:35Z")
**Misery** by Stephen King. You all know it. **Living In Oblivion** - Early 90s indie starring Steve Buscemi as a would-be auteur director trying to film a “deep” art movie, and watching it fall into shambles. (“Why is there always a little person in EVERY. DREAM. SEQUENCE??”) **For Your Consideration** - Christopher Guest movie about another indie film “Home For Purim” that gets unexpectedly nominated for a Best Picture Academy Award. **The Myth of Fingerprints** - Ridiculously overblown “dysfunctional family drama” starring Julianne Moore. During the course of the film, Moore is reading a book called “the Scream of the Rabbits”, and she’s tormented, _tormented!_ when the copy of the book she has doesn’t have the last chapter in it. When “the MOF” came out, I was working at a bookstore. People actually came in requesting this book, thinking it was for real. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/44 "2011-03-10T19:59:16Z")
Jasper Fforde has made a career out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/45 "2011-03-10T20:20:22Z")
> [@awldune](#): > > **Tristam Shandy** is a movie about filming a (ficticious) film adaptation of the titular novel. And that novel is a novel about itself, something that doesn’t come through in the movie, which was a nice try but didn’t quite make it. [QUOTE=Dr. Rieux] Jasper Fforde has made a career out of this. [/QUOTE] Even more fun, the Fairy Tale Mystery series clearly comes out of the compromise negotiated by Thursday at the end of **The Well of Lost Plots.** ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/46 "2011-03-10T21:17:28Z")
_Shakespeare in Love_ centers around the writing and staging of _Romeo and Juliet_. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/47 "2011-03-10T21:35:42Z")
The Thousand And One Nights. (A framing story that contains a whole series of stories, some of which contain stories-within stories) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/48 "2011-03-10T22:49:42Z")
Robert Silverberg’s _The Book Of Skulls_ is about 4 people who have found a book called _The Book Of Skulls_, which tells them how people can become immortal. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/49 "2011-03-10T23:04:06Z")
The movie “The Number 23” is about the main characters descent into madness after reading a book called “The Number 23”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/50 "2011-03-11T17:50:36Z")
_Topsy-Turvy_ is about the creation of Gilbert and Sullivan’s famous operetta _The Mikado_. _The Player_ is about a Hollywood bigshot who commits murder and ultimately greenlights a movie about a Hollywood bigshot who commits murder; the movie will be called… _The Player_. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/51 "2011-03-11T18:12:25Z")
Ed McBain’s _Downtown_ has background plots about a movie and a stageplay. It’s also his absolute best, well worth the reading. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/52 "2011-03-11T18:19:01Z")
When you move on to movies, there are hundreds of examples: **The Stunt Man Behind the Screen** (Chaplin short) **State and Main The Pickle Action** (TV series about the making of a movie) **Nurse Betty Tune in Tomorrow … Soapdish The Last Action Hero Pleasantville The Oscar The Bank Dick** (Fields directs a movie within the movie) **California Suite** (Maggie Smith is up for an Oscar for a movie; once nice touch is that a clip of it is shown with James Coburn – who doesn’t appear anywhere else in the film – as her co-star). **Blazing Saddles** (they go to see **Blazing Saddles** in a theater). ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/53 "2011-03-11T18:22:30Z")
[Melvaigs Vision](http://www.bookcrossing.com/journal/7931907/) (German review) by Richard Ford, heavily references a holy book that appears to be the first book of the author, The legacy (?) of the Elrond. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/54 "2011-03-11T18:24:25Z")
Another McBain: _Fat Ollie’s Book_. Proof that, when McBain wants to, he can write really really badly. The novel Fat Ollie writes is ghastly. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/55 "2011-03-11T18:34:57Z")
There’s a lot of cases of fiction-within-fiction here, but rjk seems to be asking for cases where the plot of the outer level is driven by the inner level (although that makes his own example of the Princess Bride somewhat tenuous). It’s an interesting concept, but I’m sure quite old. “Og paint cave, show Thag paint cave!” ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/56 "2011-03-11T18:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Blazing Saddles (they go to see Blazing Saddles in a theater). On that note - **Spaceballs** , where they watch a tape of Spaceballs as it’s being filmed. ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/57 "2011-03-11T19:17:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There’s a lot of cases of fiction-within-fiction here, but rjk seems to be asking for cases where the plot of the outer level is driven by the inner level (although that makes his own example of the Princess Bride somewhat tenuous). It’s an interesting concept, but I’m sure quite old. > > “Og paint cave, show Thag paint cave!” Exactly! Many of the examples above sound interesting, but they’re not quite what I’m looking for. **Dex** ’s Stark/Westlake post, on the other hand, is perfect. There are a few more, but I have no time right now to note them. Agreed, _The Princess Bride_ is marginal at best. (All I can claim is that I was tired when I posted.) Another more or less appropriate example, visual rather than fictional, would be Magritte’s [_Ceci n’est pas une pipe_](http://foucault.info/documents/foucault.thisIsNotaPipe.en.html). “What? Of course it’s a pipe! Oh, wait, I get it! It’s just a _picture_ of a pipe!” (I’ve never seen anybody mention that the message itself is inside the painting, where that really _is_ a pipe.) The accompanying cartoon is irrelevant but amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/58 "2011-03-11T19:20:13Z")
> [@rjk](#): > > Another more or less appropriate example, visual rather than fictional, would be Magritte’s [_Ceci n’est pas une pipe_](http://foucault.info/documents/foucault.thisIsNotaPipe.en.html). “What? Of course it’s a pipe! Oh, wait, I get it! It’s just a _picture_ of a pipe!” (I’ve never seen anybody mention that the message itself is inside the painting, where that really _is_ a pipe.) The accompanying cartoon is irrelevant but amusing. Scott McCloud had fun with that painting. “Actually, it’s a printed reproduction of a drawing of a painting of a pipe. Ten of them, actually, or six if you folded over the page.” ---
**Author:** ![jrbor76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9e8a1a/32.png) [@jrbor76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrbor76)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/59 "2011-03-11T22:46:07Z")
Would the movie Throw Momma from the Train Count? I seem to remember that after Billy Crystal’s character winds up in the hospital, he breaks free of his writer’s block and writes a novel basically about what happened to him throughout the movie, and he actually titled it “Throw Momma from the Train”. (You could argue the kid’s pop-up book that Danny DeVito’s character writes, too, but that’s another story.) ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147/60 "2011-03-11T22:58:29Z")
> [@rjk](#): > > - [The King In Yellow](http://www.amazon.com/King-Yellow-Robert-W-Chambers/dp/1164340794/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1299733125&sr=1-1) (1895) by Robert W. Chambers is a collection of stories about a play that will drive you mad or otherwise curse you if you read it to the end. Along these lines, [Infinite Jest](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Jest), to the extent it has a plot, revolves around a movie of the same name that is so entertaining that no one can pull their attention from it. American forces and Quebec nationalists are racing to find a copy. The latter group wishes to reproduce it for terrorist use. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-starring-fiction/574147.md?page=2)