# Fiction Titles mentioned within fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2010, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196 "2010-03-29T09:51:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196/21 "2010-03-30T02:05:19Z")
> [@RJKUgly](#): > > In many Dean Koontz books, the author quotes **The Book of Counted Sorrows**. Many fans spent lots of time looking for a copy of the book, but Koontz had made it up. > > Later, IIRC, Koontz did publish (online?) a couple of editions of the book. But that was a book based on the made up title and snippets he’d used for years as a background in his fictional universe. Interesting, the MacGuffin in The Legend of the Seeker is The Book of Counted Shadows. Anybody ever find an unexpurgated version of The Princess Bride By S. Morgenstern? ---
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196/22 "2010-03-30T06:50:27Z")
> [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](#): > > I think maybe a point of clarification on the OP is in order - while there are many examples of fiction within fiction, I think what the OP is asking for are examples of **self-referential** fiction within fiction, of which there have been a few great examples submitted. You are correct, what I am talking about is the self-referential nature of a character naming the actual work of fiction they are participating in as a character. These examples have been fun but I hope there are even more. Thanks, AllFree ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196/23 "2010-03-30T19:26:56Z")
Here’s one: in Samuel R. Delany’s novel **Dhalgren** , the Kid writes in a notebook, which includes passages from **Dhalgren.** ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196/24 "2010-03-30T20:03:38Z")
Here’s one that kind of matches - Peter Straub wrote a series of books in which a character, Timothy Underhill, either appeared, or was the protagonist. One of the books is called _Lost Boy, Lost Girl_, in which he documents a crime: The supposed abduction of his nephew by a serial killer, and Underhill’s struggle (eventually successful) to save his nephew. In the next book _In the Night Room_, Straub reveals that Underhill (the character) had written _Lost Boy, Lost Girl_as a coping mechanism, since his nephew was presumed dead, his body having never been found. So he wrote the last book as a way to both deal with his nephew’s death, and provide some kind of rationalization and backstory for the serial killer. Although the real mind-f\*\*k of _In the Night Room_ is that one of the characters Underhill is creating for his newest novel slips into the real world, and happens to be writing a book called _In the Night Room_. Confused yet? It’s waay better than it sounds, though. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196/25 "2010-03-30T20:53:21Z")
As a seque from the Straub reference, Stephen King’s **The Dark Tower** series references itself and its writer, and involves itself and him in the plot. Flan O’Brien’s **At Swim-Two-Birds** has characters that the main character (a writer) writes about come to life when he falls asleep. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196/26 "2010-03-31T19:55:08Z")
As in _Spaceballs_, there’s a whole bunch of comedy movies that refer to themselves as movies – characters reading the script of the movie to figure out what happens next, etc. – _The Muppet Movie_ is the first one that springs to my mind; I’m pretty sure at least one of the _Scary Movie_ series does something like that. And in (mostly) non-comedy, the play _Deathtrap_ is more ore less about characters writing a play called _Deathtrap_ with the same plot as the events they’re acting out. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196/27 "2010-03-31T20:12:31Z")
In the book **House of Leaves** , one of the main characters reads a book by that title to pass the time, and ends up burning pages of it for light to keep reading by. The book-within-the-(real world)-book is also called “House of Leaves” but IIRC the book that’s being read by a character isn’t the same thing. In the [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Leaves#Title), it’s suggested that “leaves” in the book’s title also refers to pages, and considering the labyrinthine construction of both the titular house and the book, I can see the parallel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-titles-mentioned-within-fiction/534196.md?page=1)